Honda vs. Polaris
#2
10-09-1999, 11:15 AM
It all depends who you ask on the pro's and cons.Honda has a very good reputation for reliability.Honda lacks the extra's that the Polaris offer on their 4x4 quads,like AWD,ground clearance,Auto trans,selectable 2wd-4wd,independant suspension,liquid cooled,and the big 500cc on 4x4 models.If Honda would put the AWD system,liquid cooled, and ground clearance that Polaris offers,I'd be willing to pay 1000 dollars more for that type of 4x4,knowing damn well it's a Honda.On the other hand,Polaris has definatly had some reliability problems with some of their quads.I know,I have one,Good Luck----BILL
#3
10-10-1999, 12:54 AM
This is a very dangerous subject. A quad is only as good as it's owner. Yes, there is a lemon or two out there in every basket, but taking proper care of a quad is a must. Too me, it seems like Polaris vs. the world most of the time. Honda and Yamaha riders don't hate each other this much, and they have been in competetion making bikes for decades. It's ok to take pride in your ride, but there a line that has to be drawn between goofing around and stupidity. Everyone has their own opinions, so this is mine. Polaris makes great snowmobiles, but putting wheels on a sled and calling it a quad doesen't cut it for me. RIDE RED!!!!
Chris "00" 300EX
Chris "00" 300EX
#5
10-11-1999, 12:12 AM
Here is my two cents:
Polaris is trying and succeeding in gaining market share. Honda has the market share but many feel that Honda has rested on its heels and forgotten to innovate. (Pre Rubicon, pre 400EX, and applies only to ATV's).
Polaris comes along and every year they are perfecting their designs, and showing 'guts' in bringing new features to market.
I will say that more competition means better machines and more features for all of us. Honda or Polaris riders.
As for the machines themselves, each manufacturer has lemons. In this forum, their seem to be more Polaris cases, than Honda.
However, there are many out there which provide excellent performance for their owners.
My Brother owns two Polaris ATV's. He has owned 250R trikes, a Warrior, and many other trikes, bikes, snowmobiles, and street bikes.
My two other brothers have ATC250R's among other machines. I own a Polaris and a Honda.
I will say that I like Honda's quality. And the 400EX that I ride is the greatest machine I have ever owned.
The Scrambler has had it's repairs, but it is five years old.
So if you had to pick one for quality, then Honda. For sport performance, then the Honda. For utility performance, then Polaris. For innovation, then Polaris.
That's it, I am putting the soap box away for another day.
RM
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99 400EX 95 Scrambler 400 85 LT250R
Polaris is trying and succeeding in gaining market share. Honda has the market share but many feel that Honda has rested on its heels and forgotten to innovate. (Pre Rubicon, pre 400EX, and applies only to ATV's).
Polaris comes along and every year they are perfecting their designs, and showing 'guts' in bringing new features to market.
I will say that more competition means better machines and more features for all of us. Honda or Polaris riders.
As for the machines themselves, each manufacturer has lemons. In this forum, their seem to be more Polaris cases, than Honda.
However, there are many out there which provide excellent performance for their owners.
My Brother owns two Polaris ATV's. He has owned 250R trikes, a Warrior, and many other trikes, bikes, snowmobiles, and street bikes.
My two other brothers have ATC250R's among other machines. I own a Polaris and a Honda.
I will say that I like Honda's quality. And the 400EX that I ride is the greatest machine I have ever owned.
The Scrambler has had it's repairs, but it is five years old.
So if you had to pick one for quality, then Honda. For sport performance, then the Honda. For utility performance, then Polaris. For innovation, then Polaris.
That's it, I am putting the soap box away for another day.
RM
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99 400EX 95 Scrambler 400 85 LT250R
#6
10-11-1999, 10:33 PM
When a discussion begins about the overall quality of certain manufacturers of anything, I remind myself of one little known fact. At the end of WW II, the only country large enough and powerful enough($$$), to rebuild the world was the USA. American industry knew this and with the backing of those with all the $$$ began a fever pitch of production of everything. Quality was not an issue for many reasons; 1. Who else was gonna produce?
2. Technology was changing very rapidly, new became old very quickly.
3. Most importantly, most products were overengineered to begin with.
So it was utopia for american industry.
Then one day a gentleman named Deming began to approach various industries with his ideas of quality control and inspecting for quality at all stages of production, from raw material selection to final assembly and service. Needless to say, he was scoffed at. So, Mr. Deming simply took his ideas to, yup you guessed it, Japan. And guess what? He found that most Japanese manufacturers were very eager to hear and implement his ideas. So after fine tuning the Q.C. and inspection processes, the japanese were able to produce things better the first time, improve single components instead of complete new products, and micro engineer to find out which components worked the best and lasted the longest.
After about 20-30 years of this fine tuning, companies such as Toyota, Honda, and Sony proved what could be done if quality was the main concern. After 20-30 years of not getting the point, American industry finally began to embrace the ideas of Deming.
Today, we have a global economy where not only is quality the issue, but cost. Make no qualms about it, american industry can, and does, produce the highest quality of ANYTHING in the world. But the cost is so high no one can buy it. If you doubt this example, just remember, Toyota, Honda and other foreign manufacturers do not produce or engineere the space shuttle.
So as to the question of quality, look where Polaris has come from, and how much improvement they have made i.e. using non-proprietary items such as Fox shocks. And remember how they push the envelope to try fresh ideas and implement them. They introduced the auto-tranny, ind. susp., floorboards, and many other items that I know I find very nice to have on a quad. And judging from the way other manufacturers have introduced similar features, many other users feel the same way.
What have we gotten from Japan, yes, very well-engineered, well-built, 10 year old designs. Only when a manufacturer such as Polaris tries a new idea and the market reacts positively, do any of the competitors follow suit. As they follow suit with new ideas, Polaris quality is improving. The way the free-market should work.
Now if only all manufacturers would stand behind their products and not let the customer be taken over by dealers(Honda, Polaris,fill in the blank).
Just my opinion, could be wrong.
P.S. sorry so long, I have a very bad habit of dragging on.
Mike
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Mike...99 Scrambler 400, 94 Kawasaki Bayou 400(newly rebuilt), 99 Impuls 50(Matt's)
2. Technology was changing very rapidly, new became old very quickly.
3. Most importantly, most products were overengineered to begin with.
So it was utopia for american industry.
Then one day a gentleman named Deming began to approach various industries with his ideas of quality control and inspecting for quality at all stages of production, from raw material selection to final assembly and service. Needless to say, he was scoffed at. So, Mr. Deming simply took his ideas to, yup you guessed it, Japan. And guess what? He found that most Japanese manufacturers were very eager to hear and implement his ideas. So after fine tuning the Q.C. and inspection processes, the japanese were able to produce things better the first time, improve single components instead of complete new products, and micro engineer to find out which components worked the best and lasted the longest.
After about 20-30 years of this fine tuning, companies such as Toyota, Honda, and Sony proved what could be done if quality was the main concern. After 20-30 years of not getting the point, American industry finally began to embrace the ideas of Deming.
Today, we have a global economy where not only is quality the issue, but cost. Make no qualms about it, american industry can, and does, produce the highest quality of ANYTHING in the world. But the cost is so high no one can buy it. If you doubt this example, just remember, Toyota, Honda and other foreign manufacturers do not produce or engineere the space shuttle.
So as to the question of quality, look where Polaris has come from, and how much improvement they have made i.e. using non-proprietary items such as Fox shocks. And remember how they push the envelope to try fresh ideas and implement them. They introduced the auto-tranny, ind. susp., floorboards, and many other items that I know I find very nice to have on a quad. And judging from the way other manufacturers have introduced similar features, many other users feel the same way.
What have we gotten from Japan, yes, very well-engineered, well-built, 10 year old designs. Only when a manufacturer such as Polaris tries a new idea and the market reacts positively, do any of the competitors follow suit. As they follow suit with new ideas, Polaris quality is improving. The way the free-market should work.
Now if only all manufacturers would stand behind their products and not let the customer be taken over by dealers(Honda, Polaris,fill in the blank).
Just my opinion, could be wrong.
P.S. sorry so long, I have a very bad habit of dragging on.
Mike
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Mike...99 Scrambler 400, 94 Kawasaki Bayou 400(newly rebuilt), 99 Impuls 50(Matt's)
#7
10-11-1999, 11:44 PM
Unfortunately I have the same problem Mike!
Innovation has its costs, one of them may include a bad reputation. Polaris has introduced many new things to the market, but since all new things are far from perfect, they have costed Polaris some of its reputation.
Keep this in mind: There are approximately 20,000 parts on the average automobile. Even if the manufacturing process is 99.9% accurate, there are still 20 defective parts on the vehicle. Imagine what it takes even to get to that kind of accuracy. I am sure this applies to anything manufactured in the world. So, if there are 5000 parts on the average quad, there is a possible 5 defective parts on a 99.9% accurately produced vehicle. If they're something minimal, like a loose lug nut or something like that, it'll probably be fixed before it causes you problems. If it's a faulty connecting rod, it might go through the side of the engine block on your first trip. So, nothing is perfect!
------------------
Want a Magnum or Sportsman 500!!!
Innovation has its costs, one of them may include a bad reputation. Polaris has introduced many new things to the market, but since all new things are far from perfect, they have costed Polaris some of its reputation.
Keep this in mind: There are approximately 20,000 parts on the average automobile. Even if the manufacturing process is 99.9% accurate, there are still 20 defective parts on the vehicle. Imagine what it takes even to get to that kind of accuracy. I am sure this applies to anything manufactured in the world. So, if there are 5000 parts on the average quad, there is a possible 5 defective parts on a 99.9% accurately produced vehicle. If they're something minimal, like a loose lug nut or something like that, it'll probably be fixed before it causes you problems. If it's a faulty connecting rod, it might go through the side of the engine block on your first trip. So, nothing is perfect!
------------------
Want a Magnum or Sportsman 500!!!
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#8
10-13-1999, 01:06 AM
Well fellas I guess it's back to the the old question "what do you want it for, work play, or both" I work my Honda every day pulling loads, so belt drive won't cut it. Polaris independent is the next best ride to a car, but back in the bush where I go I need the stability of the lower center of gravity (Honda)for rock climbing and steep hills. Ground clearance, good in deep mud, Polaris has Honda beat there, but this can also make the machine top heavy, and dippsy when cornering quickly. I've ridden both machines and can honestly say for me, Honda is still best for my application.
#9
10-13-1999, 06:07 PM
We work with both Polaris and Honda in extreme mountain conditions. The Polaris quads are great climbers (because of the auto trans) and will wallow though all sorts of bogs and mud, plus the two-strokes will start at 40 below easily. The only problem is when you buy one you have to buy another for parts. They only last about a year before they need replacing and they requre constant maintenance (This is in extreme conditions). The Hondas on the other hand will not climb quite as well because of the need to shift gears (because of hills that require more momentum than traction). This is also the same for the soft stuff. The chief advantage of the Hondas is that you just get on and ride. They mostly only require oil and brakes and tires. We have several without fenders, bashed in rims, spaghetti handlebars and countless hours on the motors. Most are still running fine and still in use. This is not true with the polaris quads. They look new because they are new. We buy them because they are easier to ride for the unexperienced in the steep hills and mud. Also they are the only ones that make a six wheel drive cargo version. Plus they are great tax write offs. Personally I own a Honda 450s and am very happy with it. I is incredibly well balanced and incredibly rugged.I think that the reason that Honda has stuck to hydralic drum brakes, limited slip front diff's, and non-automatic transmissions is because that they only want to stick with whats proven and reliable. I have not owned a Honda that has let me down because of anything but abuse. With the new Rubicon comming out next May I will be the first in line to get one. With its hydralic tranny and new differential I hope that Honda is releasing a quad with quality components and not just bowing to pressure. I am willing to wait for these features, if the machine I get is like the others I have owned. I guess its personal preference on which is more to your liking. What I am waiting to see is a Honda that climbs and rips through mud like a Polaris. Hopefully the Rubicon is that machine.
#10
10-13-1999, 07:20 PM
I think to some it all up, if reliability and ease of maintenance is your main priority (example: most hunters & utility users), you usually can't beat a Honda. If performance is your priority (whether that mean fastest down the trail or fastest through the mud), the Polaris is a good choice.
BTW-I don't think that the 400ex is innovative, or as innovative as people make it sound. It handles good, yea, but putting a trail motor from a dirt bike into an ATV frame and calling it high performance is sad. Unfortionatly, it is one of the fastest ATV's made. Faster than mine too... I just think they should call it a sport quad, not high performance.
[This message has been edited by quad_man (edited 10-13-1999).]
BTW-I don't think that the 400ex is innovative, or as innovative as people make it sound. It handles good, yea, but putting a trail motor from a dirt bike into an ATV frame and calling it high performance is sad. Unfortionatly, it is one of the fastest ATV's made. Faster than mine too... I just think they should call it a sport quad, not high performance.
[This message has been edited by quad_man (edited 10-13-1999).]