After seeing two days of everyone's opinion (mostly bad) on the new Rincon, had to put my 2 cents in. Think about it...

1. Honda...Why not a sport quad instead of another utility?

Well, who for the most part buys sport quads? Young males age 15-30. Who buys utility quads? Males 30+. Now before you hammer the forum with "I am 42 and have a Raptor!!", yes there are exceptions to every rule. Older males want something that doesn't look or perform like a tractor and have the money to pay for such a quad.
Every 17 year old and their brother wants the boy racer, modern day 250R, but McDonalds wages won't pay for it; only parents with money will hit the showrooms being pulled kicking and screaming by their teen. Honda and all the other quad manufacturers look for the deepest pockets and it sure ain't junior!
The guys who can afford the Rincon (my guess it will run $7500), want a lot for their money... they want to ride the trails (and look good doing it), take it home and plow the drive, haul the garden cart full of dirt or gravel, and drag the dead deer out of the woods. Make a quad that will do all those things (never saw a 400EX plowing snow) and watch the money roll in, from the guys who have it (the money that is).

2. Honda is behind the times as always, drum brakes on the front, no locking diff, etc. etc.?!?!

If it ain't broke don't fix it. I am on my second Honda "utility" quad, a 2000 Rancher 4x4 and every time I pull the levers, WOW, it stops!!! Sealed drums stop the quad fine with a very low level of maintainence. Guys with money, who will buy this type of quad will not want to spend their weekends wrenching on the machine or adding mods, they are too busy working to pay the mortgage. They want a no muss, no fuss, and are willing to pay for it. Again, aim squarely at the deep pockets and Rincon will be in the cross hairs. They aren't gonna mod it, and they don't want untested whizz bang items on the quad. Why do you think Hondas are so reliable, they pick a time tested part and stick with it. When they add new things (for Honda that is) to their machines (IRC, selectable 2wd/4wd, autotranny, etc.) they are johnny come lately for a reason, they watch other manufacturers bring them to market, wait to see what goes wrong with their latest and greatest, and then make their new additions better!

3. I wanna 650EX with an aluminum frame, that weighs 37 pounds, goes 136mph, and has a cup holder...

That's great if that's what you want, but, you have to look at the numbers... Now you or I will never have access to Honda's or any other manufacturers sales numbers but the best way to figure this out is go to a BIG poker run, so let's talk about the biggest... Cochranton.
I have been there for 4 years, yep, lotsa Banshees, 400EXs, Scramblers, few DSs, and even a 250R here and there. But what do you mostly see... Ranchers, Foremans, Grizzlies, Sportsmans, Big Bears, and such. The newest quads in the lines are utilities, or "sport utilities". In other words for every newer sport machine (read expensive) you see you will see 5 or more brand new utilities (read also expensive). When I see 20 Cannondales or 50 Raptors and I don't see 200 Sportmans then we will talk about what is really selling in the showrooms. Honda is gonna make a quad that will sell, and sell well. They have never and will never dwell into niche markets (read Cannondale, DS).

4. Why are they announcing something that won't be out for a year?!?!?

That's simple... take me for example, on September 19th the new quad in the future for PTGB was going to be a Rubicon in early 2003. Had my mind made up. Well guess what, that has changed... obviously... get them on the hook early and you guarantee sales in the future. The only exception to this rule is going be that sales on the Rubicon will be hurt. Rubicon shoppers will now wait it out. Also the guys jumping the Honda ship for other manufacturers big bore "utility" quads because of the other manufacturers technological advances over Honda (Prairie 650, Sportmans 700 with their IRC, selectable 2/4wd, etc.) will now wait for summer 2002 and get what they want with a Honda.

I know that there will be replies that contradict what I am saying, but don't think like and individual, think the big picture... Honda, and every other manufacturer does (except Cannondale).

Interested in hearing your take on this....

 

I agree, but i am one of those that want a CRF450 based quad (prolly wont happen, but hell.... ) I race motocross and would buy this quad in a heartbeat. I agree with what you said. The manufacturers look at the almighty dollar and the best way to make it. I also agree with what you said about cannondale. They have changed the atv industry, in my opinion, and geared it much more toward what WE the riders/racers want.

 

i agree with your take on the way honda may think,but you say guys 30 and over have the money and want sport utes,i would say most guys over 40 want them,this is a list of my ridin buddies,ages,quads 30-raptor;33-raptor;47-raptor;20-raptor,22-raptor;33-banshee;44-warrior;56-400 scrambler;32-ds650,we all live in montana and ride mostly woods and mountains,and ride year round,the reason we ride atvs is to have FUN the last time i rode my 28 year old brother in laws grizz it just seemed like the fun was taking to long!i do have to say that my 80 year old grandpa thought my raptor was too high geared for him.hes got a honda foreman and loves it.hes also has deep pockets but he dosnt ride much so i dont think he will be running for the honda dealer to lay down a deposit on the new 650.even if hondas thoughts on age were correct the one way to establish brand loyalty is to get the younger buyers on their quads and to have a line up that will keep them coming back as their riding style changes,how many kids 17 do you know that want to ride a 400ex when their getting spanked by what looks like very soon every other brand on the market.as time goes on the new young guns arent going to care about how great the 250r was because everything else will be better.technology isnt a bad thing and doesnt mean unreliable.and the thing about drum brakes,give up, my wifes blaster has them and they suck.its one thing to put them on a 3000.00 quad but a 7500.00 quad.thats just plain cheap.

 

I agree with your number 1. I can't agree with number 2 though, and I have no opinion on the rest.

If it ain't broke don't fix it doesn't apply from a sales aspect. That is why Honda lost its market share to polaris in 1998. Yes, Polaris led in sales that year. Honda came back with a 400ex and a 450 utility and regained their stature.

From a competitive point of view, manufacturers are seeming to answer the call now from all of those who for years wanted somebody to make a locking differential on something other than a 300 Suzuki. Polaris hasn't had to worry as much, but Yamaha and Kawasaki listened. While the majority of folks aren't going to care much about this and disc brakes, there is a good bunch that is. The addition of these two options is something that will please this group, while at the same time, its not something that is going to be to radical or crazy (such as plastic racks or sporty apearance) to **** off the regular joe utility crowd. In other words, they will still buy it and not give a crap while the younger guys will be getting what they want.

I think they should have covered all the bases except just first second and third. Of course, if its going to be next summer, the honda r&d crew could always make that change. I hope they do. It will be the best quad out with one of the stupidest names. Something about the sound of it just doesn't click. Can you imagine hearing somebody tell you "My Rincon is one bad *****!" Thats almost as bad as having a "Kick *** Eiger!"

 

One of the things we often lose sight of on these forums is that the companies that make our machines are in it for the money. They are not in it for a hobby or because they love to see young men smile. Honda, like the other manufacturers, does its homework so they know what will sell and make them more money. Do they care that so many were upset when they brought out the 250EX instead of the state of the art sport machine? No, because with a little engine mod and new cosmetics they have a big seller that was cheap to come up with. In other words, they called it just right. They also know that the bread and butter machines are the utility machines that make up the bulk of their sales. They have to put $ into development there because it makes a direct impact on their profits. On the other hand a company that is involved with motor sports wants there name around for advertisement and the right image. Why spend money on a machine to grab the spotlight when their ancient 250R is still doing that for free? We also are very quick to forget high performance that gives us what we thought we wanted. It has not been that long since we all were ga ga over the 400EX. It was what everyone wanted and what re-started the high performance wars. Yet now we complain that Honda won't do anything for us. (Heck, if you think about it they "made" the DS, Raptor, Cannondale, etc by starting the competition.) While we forget high performance, we remember quality for a long time. The 300 4X4 is still the gold standard for durability. It was slow, rode horrible, turned long and had 3 wheel drive; but that isn't what we remember. We remember never working on it and that it always started. Yet it stunk compared to the performance of our current 4X4's. But it almost single handedly made Honda's "dependable atv" image. That is why many will wait for a new Honda 650 4X4. Even though it will not probably surpass the performance of the others in many ways. Honda is a smart business not the atv tooth fairy..

 

Well said ptgb! Sport quad sales are very limited, and its just like you said. For every one sport quad you see you'll end up seeing about 5 utility bikes. I won't be surprise if its a few more years till we see a new honda sport bike, sales are in the utility quads and the 400 ex is selling very well, so I don't see why they'd come out with a new sport bike. It would be sweet though to see a new 650 EX!

Mitch
00 Xplorer 400
02 400 EX (for sale)

 

nice post

 

Just one thing about drum brakes.My sons recon's drum's suck.My rancher's are great.I have 1500 miles on it with out one problem.Ive had to leave it in a mud pit over night once and it was raining like mad.When i got it home I had not one drop of water in the durm.Ive still today have not got any water in them and havent had to adjust them once.My son's recon,thats another story.
My point is.I think Honda has mastered the drum brake instead of going to disk.Just my opinon.
The drum brakes wouldnt stop me from buying the rincon.Just the price.

 

My drums on my rubi suck, doenst matter if I use the rear, front or both at the same time.. Its horrable when backing a heavy load down a hill! they work, but the responce is slow and they are weak. (maybe I am just use to finger tip responce from my XR)

 

You have one part of the equation wrong. The cost is supposed to be in the $8500 area. Maybe a couple hundred less, but not that much less.