3x4 or 4x4
#21
10-02-2001, 12:52 AM
From personal experience I can tell you that my Kodiak has been stuck many times with one front wheel in the spinning while the one with weight on it just sits there! On the other hand, I don't seem to get stuck any more or less often than guys with atvs that have "true 4x4"!
Here's my trusty but not so safe way to get around this "off the ground wheel spin situation": Have your buddy sit on your front rack and push both wheels down to the dirt-the bigger he is the better! LOL! Once I even did it myself when I was stuck while riding alone!
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Here's my trusty but not so safe way to get around this "off the ground wheel spin situation": Have your buddy sit on your front rack and push both wheels down to the dirt-the bigger he is the better! LOL! Once I even did it myself when I was stuck while riding alone!
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#22
10-02-2001, 01:33 AM
Having an absolute 4WD when you need it is a must! How you get that is very different form one machine to the next. My Griz was worthless with the stock front differential. I tried a couple of the after market "lockers", but stripped them both. After having pulled the front dif for the third time in a week, I decided to weld the spider gears in my front dif. Then I knew I wouldn't stip it, and I would have "true" 4WD. In hind sight, I'm glad I did. I have found that it really isn't the deep mud that gets me hung up, but the off camber, front wheel lifting terrain that gave me the most problem. Mix that with some very steep hill climbs, and I haven't regretted "locking" my front end in the slightest! Steering kind of sucks, but I'll be getting the Detroit locker for mine when they are available. Then I will have easy steering in 2WD at least. Either way it wouldn't matter, if I had it to do over again, I would!
Of the other 4x4 quads that I have ridden with, the ones that stand out for having a good front dif are; the 2000 AC 500 auto, the 2000 500 Traxter, and the Polaris Sportsman. If I were to list them as far as which one worked better, this is how I would rate them.
1. Traxter-The front dif works very well. It takes very little slip to engage the other wheel, and once the other wheel is engaged, it stays "locked" untill you let off the gas. A very effective front end.
2.Arctic Cat 500 auto-Of all the limited slips I've seen operate. This one has the best of both worlds. It will bias torque to the wheel that needs it, but still allow for easy steering. I will spin from side to side in certain situations, but when you need straight ahead traction, it does the job very nicely. Effective
3. Polaris Sportsman-It has all 4 wheels available when its working correctly, but it seems to not work correctly more often then others. Way too dependant on electronics for proper operation, and a mechanically complicated design. This system does not allow for 4 wheel engine braking when going down steep hills, there for making it the least desireable 4x4 design of all!
I think all the rest are about as bad as mine was when I bought it. These are just my personal opinions.
Rick
Of the other 4x4 quads that I have ridden with, the ones that stand out for having a good front dif are; the 2000 AC 500 auto, the 2000 500 Traxter, and the Polaris Sportsman. If I were to list them as far as which one worked better, this is how I would rate them.
1. Traxter-The front dif works very well. It takes very little slip to engage the other wheel, and once the other wheel is engaged, it stays "locked" untill you let off the gas. A very effective front end.
2.Arctic Cat 500 auto-Of all the limited slips I've seen operate. This one has the best of both worlds. It will bias torque to the wheel that needs it, but still allow for easy steering. I will spin from side to side in certain situations, but when you need straight ahead traction, it does the job very nicely. Effective
3. Polaris Sportsman-It has all 4 wheels available when its working correctly, but it seems to not work correctly more often then others. Way too dependant on electronics for proper operation, and a mechanically complicated design. This system does not allow for 4 wheel engine braking when going down steep hills, there for making it the least desireable 4x4 design of all!
I think all the rest are about as bad as mine was when I bought it. These are just my personal opinions.
Rick
#23
10-02-2001, 09:54 AM
I was just in some mud up to the top of the fenders with my Honda Rancher on Saturday. In any case all 4 wheels were spinning, thus giving me some traction and getting me out. Based on some reviews that I read it appears that the Honda Rancher limited slip is the best one on the market these days. I think they did something right.
#25
10-02-2001, 03:52 PM
Oh Differentials.
Open diffs = in most trucks (all in front) just some spider gears that provide equal power to each wheel as long as resistance is equal. (usually never) this is so when you go around a corner the outside wheel is allows to travel faster. And if you notice closely if only one front wheel is spinning, it will be spinning twice as fast as the rear wheels.
Limited slip = Clutch pack (yamaha, kawasaki, some susuki and some honda) friction disks provide a 70/30 torque bias to each wheel. better than the open 50/50 bias. once one wheel exceeds this bias, it gets all the torque. So even with a great limited slip (cone design on newer hondas) when one wheel is off the ground it gets the torque.
Kawasaki locker = manual lever that squeezes the clutch pack together to lock front end, very effective, can be progressively engaged at any speed.
Grizz 660 locker = electronic locker (servo slides a pin to lock diff??) Must be stopped to engage.
the idea of using your front brakes to transfer power would work of you had seperate front brakes (right and left). Like on a farm tractor, you can control wheel speed with the brakes.
You can add a thicker shim to the front diff to stiffen it up but will just wear faster.
Open diffs = in most trucks (all in front) just some spider gears that provide equal power to each wheel as long as resistance is equal. (usually never) this is so when you go around a corner the outside wheel is allows to travel faster. And if you notice closely if only one front wheel is spinning, it will be spinning twice as fast as the rear wheels.
Limited slip = Clutch pack (yamaha, kawasaki, some susuki and some honda) friction disks provide a 70/30 torque bias to each wheel. better than the open 50/50 bias. once one wheel exceeds this bias, it gets all the torque. So even with a great limited slip (cone design on newer hondas) when one wheel is off the ground it gets the torque.
Kawasaki locker = manual lever that squeezes the clutch pack together to lock front end, very effective, can be progressively engaged at any speed.
Grizz 660 locker = electronic locker (servo slides a pin to lock diff??) Must be stopped to engage.
the idea of using your front brakes to transfer power would work of you had seperate front brakes (right and left). Like on a farm tractor, you can control wheel speed with the brakes.
You can add a thicker shim to the front diff to stiffen it up but will just wear faster.
#26
10-02-2001, 04:53 PM
Traxter is a 3x4 and a 4x4 so to speak.
When you are just trail crusing, the front differential is "open" as in one tire will spin faster or slower depending on which way you turn. Makes it really easy to steer. BUT the front differentail is torque senseing, so when you start to get the machine stuck, and you hit the throrttle, the front end automatically "locks" the the front end. (Both wheels will spin at the same speed.) It's the same thing as the locking differentials on the grizzly, prarrie, suzuki, or whate ever. You just do not ever have to push any buttons or pull any levers. And yes it is a very reliable system, since 1999 when the Traxter was released, I don't think a single one has fail yet. The axles ares DANA built and designed on the Traxter and the Quest. For those of you who do not know, DANA is the axle company that pretty much set the standard for 4x4 quality and performance in the truck world.
When you are just trail crusing, the front differential is "open" as in one tire will spin faster or slower depending on which way you turn. Makes it really easy to steer. BUT the front differentail is torque senseing, so when you start to get the machine stuck, and you hit the throrttle, the front end automatically "locks" the the front end. (Both wheels will spin at the same speed.) It's the same thing as the locking differentials on the grizzly, prarrie, suzuki, or whate ever. You just do not ever have to push any buttons or pull any levers. And yes it is a very reliable system, since 1999 when the Traxter was released, I don't think a single one has fail yet. The axles ares DANA built and designed on the Traxter and the Quest. For those of you who do not know, DANA is the axle company that pretty much set the standard for 4x4 quality and performance in the truck world.
#27
10-04-2001, 02:11 AM
Grizzjeeper,
Its nice to hear that there are people out there who really understand how a differential works! I can't speak for any other manufacturer, but when it comes to the Yamaha front limited slip, its a joke! There are 2 small clutch plates on ONE side of the differential to bais torque between the two wheels. An automotive limited slip has a clutch pack behind both axle side gears, not just one! Meaning the automotive limited slip will actually work when you need it, as opposed to being worthless, like the(Yamaha)ATV front dif!
MXZX,
The front differential on the traxter is not a Dana. It's a Gleason. It does not operate even close to the same as the Prarie or the Grizzly. Do your research dude.
Rick
Its nice to hear that there are people out there who really understand how a differential works! I can't speak for any other manufacturer, but when it comes to the Yamaha front limited slip, its a joke! There are 2 small clutch plates on ONE side of the differential to bais torque between the two wheels. An automotive limited slip has a clutch pack behind both axle side gears, not just one! Meaning the automotive limited slip will actually work when you need it, as opposed to being worthless, like the(Yamaha)ATV front dif!
MXZX,
The front differential on the traxter is not a Dana. It's a Gleason. It does not operate even close to the same as the Prarie or the Grizzly. Do your research dude.
Rick
#28
10-04-2001, 02:34 PM
I wasn't compairing the traxter front end to a grizzly or a prarrie system. The vislock system on Traxter's was first used on Dana equiped jeeps (Cherokee's?) if I remember correctly. Sorry if implied Dana actually built tiny (but massive by atv stanards), differentials. Bad word choice on my part. They are still an awesome, bullet proof system.
#29
10-04-2001, 03:08 PM
Griz rick.
I know what you mean...
I never understood with all the R and D that go into these machines they couldnt come up with some sort of positive locking front differential. Look how simple a lock-right is, why cant they come up with something like that from the factory. LSD's are ok for on trucks that dont see alot of off roading (one tire leaving the ground) but are worthless in an atv.
How do you like your grizz?? I had a 2000 grizz, loved it. I personally think it was an underated machine for most riding conditions.
I know what you mean...
I never understood with all the R and D that go into these machines they couldnt come up with some sort of positive locking front differential. Look how simple a lock-right is, why cant they come up with something like that from the factory. LSD's are ok for on trucks that dont see alot of off roading (one tire leaving the ground) but are worthless in an atv.
How do you like your grizz?? I had a 2000 grizz, loved it. I personally think it was an underated machine for most riding conditions.
