Watch out 400EX owners..the new Suzuki Z400 Quadsport is here
#11
10-08-2001, 03:40 PM
<< Could have been a killer bike, now it will need $1000 in engine upgrades to be truly powerful - just like a 400EX... >>
Are you saying that the BSR will not make as much power as a mechanically operated carb? Could you PLEASE explain that statement?
<< with a 400EX's power having a better feel (due to it having a real carb). >>
Would a FCR be a good choice? Like the one on your 400ex?
<< it will likely come down to personal preference and whether or not reverse is important to you. >>
Look at the specs.....not including reverse....the Z400 has the same width, lighter, longer wheelbase, slightly more suspension travel in front, same in rear, liquid cooling, reverse, a LOWER SEAT HEIGHT, detuned and still over 2 points more compression (+ clearly performance oriented engine). Personal opinion? Lets be realistic, this ride is built to spank a 400ex.
#13
10-08-2001, 05:36 PM
Added weight?????? It weights less than the 400ex???
Won't handle as good???? Why not? Please elaborate as to why the new Z400 will not handle as good as a 400ex. Like I have posted earlier.....same width....longer....lower....less weight.
After owning a 400ex previously, I don't remember the superior brakes???
30hp compared to 24hp is a big difference.
Don't get me wrong guys, I like the 400ex, but it's pretty clear on paper anyway. We will see early next year if the new Zuke is what it could be.
Won't handle as good???? Why not? Please elaborate as to why the new Z400 will not handle as good as a 400ex. Like I have posted earlier.....same width....longer....lower....less weight.
After owning a 400ex previously, I don't remember the superior brakes???
30hp compared to 24hp is a big difference.
Don't get me wrong guys, I like the 400ex, but it's pretty clear on paper anyway. We will see early next year if the new Zuke is what it could be.
#14
10-08-2001, 07:16 PM
<< juggalo-- Gas Gas announced quite a while ago that there will be no 300 2stroke quad after all. >>
nope its coming out now after all. i have the article scanned from my november issue of 4 wheel atv action to prove it. check out my post about it... i think its called i can't belive no1 is talkin about it!
its sweet.
#15
10-08-2001, 11:10 PM
#17
10-09-2001, 12:39 PM
I agree with GARYC660R, this Suzuki was designed with slight improvements over the 400EX in every way possible.....
And from the sound of it, they accomplished their goal
I'm happy to see it....
But I'm still a Honda fan.... and awaiting the King that will never be de-throned: the 450EXR!
heck I'm even trying to buy my buddies barely ridden '99 400EX, as we speak.....
the 400EX will remain one of the best selling and best sport quads ever built, simply because of ergonomics, dependability, and PRICE !
And from the sound of it, they accomplished their goal
I'm happy to see it....
But I'm still a Honda fan.... and awaiting the King that will never be de-throned: the 450EXR!
heck I'm even trying to buy my buddies barely ridden '99 400EX, as we speak.....
the 400EX will remain one of the best selling and best sport quads ever built, simply because of ergonomics, dependability, and PRICE !
#18
10-09-2001, 12:49 PM
Are you saying that the BSR will not make as much power as a mechanically operated carb? Could you PLEASE explain that statement?
A BSR may make as much power once actually under full throttle as many carbs, unfortunately vacuum has control over that instead of the operator. You should know that as well as anyone. Also a CV carb that is the same bore size as an FCR (which this one is not), will NOT flow as well, there are restrictions in air path. CV carbs ARE NOT known as performance carbs - they are mild, cheap, almost untunable emissions carbs.
Would a FCR be a good choice? Like the one on your 400ex?
Absolutely. Suzuki thought so as well, since it was OEM equipment on the DRZ. In fact, I don't remember a BSR being used on any performance related platform short of a few new ATVs. Do you see any DRZ or YZF owners yanking their FCRs and installing BSRs?
Personal opinion? Lets be realistic, this ride is built to spank a 400ex.
If you're going to cop an attitude - so was the Raptor, that didn't happen either. I still race them all the time, I still consider a Banshee more of a threat in the woods or MX track.... I'll likely consider the new Suzuki more of a threat on the track or trail as well - I'm not at all saying it will be a bad bike, just saying I am disappointed with what Suzuki did to an otherwise great engine. It WILL be expensive to bring back up to par, as much so as a 400EX. BTW, did you notice how if you couldn't see the engine or plastic it would look just like a 400EX?
Added weight?????? It weights less than the 400ex???
The specifications you are going on are pre-release claimed dry weight. Give me a break. You know as well as I do, that real world WET weight will absolutely be greater than the 400EX. Maybe not by a whole lot, but it certainly won't be lighter.
30hp compared to 24hp is a big difference.
24hp? You took the LOWEST dyno reading you could find and subtracted a HP. I personally contacted those guys when they originally posted the 24 to 25 HP dyno run and asked them if they had checked the throttle adjustment before the run. They didn't have a clue what I was talking about. Alomst every 400EX that is delivered, is delivered with the throttle misadjusted (all the way in), which only allows for approx 75-80% throttle. Does it make a difference, HELL YES.
If you want real numbers, look around a little more and you will find that 27hp is a WHOLE lot more common and realistic number for a stock 400EX.
Here's the deal Gary....
To get a 400Z up to around 39 HP you will have to install a 39mm FCR carb, 12.2:1 (stock DRZ) piston, a pair of (at least) stock DRZ cams, and a descent exhaust. A 400EX takes exactly the same mods, except one less cam and a little less compression. A 400EX WILL develop more torque, the 400Z should love the high revs.
Sorry if my post sounds like it was written with a little attitude, yours sounded like it was. If yours was not intended that way, please accept my apology.
I'm just being realistic and trying not to be blinded by excitement about a new offering in the sport ATV world. I'm sure it will be a great machine and a very serious threat on the track, just disappointed that it could have been so much better. As it sits, it will need $1000 dumped into the engine to bring it up to around stock DRZ power.
A BSR may make as much power once actually under full throttle as many carbs, unfortunately vacuum has control over that instead of the operator. You should know that as well as anyone. Also a CV carb that is the same bore size as an FCR (which this one is not), will NOT flow as well, there are restrictions in air path. CV carbs ARE NOT known as performance carbs - they are mild, cheap, almost untunable emissions carbs.
Would a FCR be a good choice? Like the one on your 400ex?
Absolutely. Suzuki thought so as well, since it was OEM equipment on the DRZ. In fact, I don't remember a BSR being used on any performance related platform short of a few new ATVs. Do you see any DRZ or YZF owners yanking their FCRs and installing BSRs?
Personal opinion? Lets be realistic, this ride is built to spank a 400ex.
If you're going to cop an attitude - so was the Raptor, that didn't happen either. I still race them all the time, I still consider a Banshee more of a threat in the woods or MX track.... I'll likely consider the new Suzuki more of a threat on the track or trail as well - I'm not at all saying it will be a bad bike, just saying I am disappointed with what Suzuki did to an otherwise great engine. It WILL be expensive to bring back up to par, as much so as a 400EX. BTW, did you notice how if you couldn't see the engine or plastic it would look just like a 400EX?
Added weight?????? It weights less than the 400ex???
The specifications you are going on are pre-release claimed dry weight. Give me a break. You know as well as I do, that real world WET weight will absolutely be greater than the 400EX. Maybe not by a whole lot, but it certainly won't be lighter.
30hp compared to 24hp is a big difference.
24hp? You took the LOWEST dyno reading you could find and subtracted a HP. I personally contacted those guys when they originally posted the 24 to 25 HP dyno run and asked them if they had checked the throttle adjustment before the run. They didn't have a clue what I was talking about. Alomst every 400EX that is delivered, is delivered with the throttle misadjusted (all the way in), which only allows for approx 75-80% throttle. Does it make a difference, HELL YES.
If you want real numbers, look around a little more and you will find that 27hp is a WHOLE lot more common and realistic number for a stock 400EX.
Here's the deal Gary....
To get a 400Z up to around 39 HP you will have to install a 39mm FCR carb, 12.2:1 (stock DRZ) piston, a pair of (at least) stock DRZ cams, and a descent exhaust. A 400EX takes exactly the same mods, except one less cam and a little less compression. A 400EX WILL develop more torque, the 400Z should love the high revs.
Sorry if my post sounds like it was written with a little attitude, yours sounded like it was. If yours was not intended that way, please accept my apology.
I'm just being realistic and trying not to be blinded by excitement about a new offering in the sport ATV world. I'm sure it will be a great machine and a very serious threat on the track, just disappointed that it could have been so much better. As it sits, it will need $1000 dumped into the engine to bring it up to around stock DRZ power.
#20
10-09-2001, 01:32 PM
Gabe, I was commenting on stock atv's. Not modified atv's. Not atv's in racing form. Like I posted, on paper, it will spank the 400ex. In the real world, or if the specs change, that could be another story...
The 400ex and Raptor are so close handling wise (key word...STOCK) that it's just a matter of opinion, not fact that the 400ex is a better handling atv. I had a 400ex for a year and know how a 400ex handles in stock form. Stock for stock, power wise, it's no comparism. Anyway, thats not the conversation....
Stock for stock, how do YOU feel the Z400 will compete with the 400ex?
The 400ex and Raptor are so close handling wise (key word...STOCK) that it's just a matter of opinion, not fact that the 400ex is a better handling atv. I had a 400ex for a year and know how a 400ex handles in stock form. Stock for stock, power wise, it's no comparism. Anyway, thats not the conversation....
Stock for stock, how do YOU feel the Z400 will compete with the 400ex?