This is approximately 1/3 to 2/3 the way through the original thread. I will try to be as accurate as possible. I decided to try and post each message individually (since Gordon’s posts are rather loquacious )
These start on 8/11/1999 and go to 8/18/1999. I tried to get the wording right - If anybody sees anything glaringly wrong - just holler and I’ll try to fix it.

Happy Trails


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Steve "Bog Hog" West

Honda 300 4x4 - Gordonized, Powered and Vamped

[This message has been edited by Bog_Hog (edited 11-06-1999).]

[This message has been edited by Bog_Hog (edited 01-29-2000).]

 

Originator: mattsibley
Posted: 08-11-1999

Gordon,
I get what you are saying. Did Highlifters performance kit lose any of the off idle power? It is low enough right now and if I lose anymore it would really suck. What kind of engine mods could possibly work to get more low end power? I’m not to familiar with this stuff so say it in as understandable terms as possible. Thanks again.


[This message has been edited by Bog_Hog (edited 11-06-1999).]

 

Originator: Gordon_L_Banks
Posted: 08-11-1999

"Did Highlifters performance kit lose any of the off idle power?"

We think not. Steve’s Honda 300 passed the "tree test" before and after installing the kit, and the results were basically identical.

"What kind of engine mods could possibly work to get more low end power? I’m not to familiar with this stuff so say it in as understandable terms as possible."

Basically, more cubic inches and/or more compression.

1. Low Cost - Low Gain: You can replace the cylinder base gasket with a zero-thickness sealant to raise the compression, but the gain is small for the amount of work required.

2. Moderate Cost - Low Gain: You can replace the piston with a high-compression piston to get even more compression, but here again, the gain is small for the cost and the amount of work required.

3. High Cost - High Gain: You can install a Big Bore kit to enlarge the engine and raise the compression at the same time. because of their outstanding reputation for quality and service (they’ve been in the business for over 30 years), I chose the Powroll 313cc kit, but there are others available. Total cost for the kit and the required machine shop work will be close to $400, and you still have to provide the labor for the top-end (head, cylinder, and piston) disassembly and reassembly, but the results speak for themselves. With the stock carb and stock exhaust pipe, my 300 (now a 313) feels like a typical 400cc machine. It will accelerate side by side with a stock Honda 450, up to about 35 mph.

[This message has been edited by Bog_Hog (edited 11-06-1999).]

 

Originator: mcb
Posted: 08-16-1999

I noticed in earlier posts concerns about Vampires being too big for a 300 4x4. I am also thinking about Vampires and I have that same concern.

I am thinking about 24x9x11 for the front and 25x9.5x11 for the rear (instead of the wider ones in the rear). (I think these are the smallest Vampires there are???)

Does putting the 25x9.5x11 tires on the rear solve the weight problem?

Also does anyone have any comments on the old Super Swamper vs. the Vampire?

 

Originator: mattsibley
Posted: 08-16-1999

I have the 24x9x11 and 25x12x11 vampires. Both of the tires are heavy and you WILL still lose power with the skinny ones on back. My 300 turns them excellent in 1st gear. I’m still going to buy a highlifter high performance kit soon to regain my lost power. Also the super swampers are light and work OK. BUT they still cannot out do the Vamps in the mud. Good luck with you decision.


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Matt Sibley
1999 Honda 300 4x4 Vampires and 2500 lb. winch

 

Originator: mcb
Posted: 08-16-1999

Matt - I figured I would still lose some power, just hopefully not as much.

So, from your posts, it appears that you really like the Vampires. Why do you think you need to increase the power? (i.e. what do you do that requires more power?)

I will be using mine almost exclusively for duck hunting and will ride on muddy dirt roads and flooded fields. I don’t want to increase power (mainly because I don’t want to mess with it) but I also do not want to get stuck. So I guess what I am asking is, based on your experience, is the additional power necessary or just something you just want?

Also, what about Bi-Claws? I have read they are lighter and that in the smaller sizes have actually beaten Vampires in the mud.

Thanks. Clay Bethell

 

Originator: mattsibley
Posted: 08-16-1999

You really don’t need more power for the riding you would do. It’s really something I just want! But sometimes when you are coming up a steep bank out of a mud hole, it will get out but sometimes it makes you wonder if it has the juice. So really I would like the extra power so that I could climb steeper banks and to spin the tires faster in second and third gear than I can now. I don’t think there is such a thing as TOO much power. Oh about Bi-claws, I’ve never went riding with anyone who had them. I seriously doubt they will BEAT the vampires. But it’s up to you. Good luck with your choice.


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Matt Sibley
1999 Honda 300 4x4 Vampires and 2500 lb. winch

 

Originator: Gordon_L_Banks
Posted: 08-16-1999

I pretty much agree about the extra power. It’s more fun tan to fill a specific need. Mine is a much better rock hopper and hill climber now, and it accelerates faster, but except for a few situations, the extra power hasn’t enabled it to go anywhere it wouldn’t go when stock…. At least when ridden in the same manner, which I’m not always known to do.

As for mud tires, I’ve never seen a magazine test in which the Super Swamper Vampires beat the Bi-Claw/Tri-Claw tires… except for the one comparing the new 27" sizes only. Every other comparison test I’ve read, even going back to 1996, indicated either the Bi/Tri-Claws were the best or that nothing else was better. Not wanting to buy and test them myself, I just went with the magazines advice and bought their winning combination for my Prairie 400. And, they work well. Later, when I wanted mud tires for my 300, I also heeded the magazine’s advice about NOT putting the biggest and baddest tires on a little 300, so I decided to go with something smaller. I put 25x9.5x12 Bi-Claws on the front (at 4 psi, they measure 24x9.75"), and since there are no narrow 26" Tri-Claws, I put 26x11x12 Bi-Claws (at 4 psi, they measure 24.4x10.5) on the rear. All four are "front tire" sizes, but I don’t think that matters. As it turns out, the ½" taller rear tire is exactly what the Honda 300 4x4 needs, not a full 1" taller. These tires are lighter than the Vampires or Tri-Claws, and they are not too tall or wide for the stock 300 engine (I wouldn’t put them on a Yamaha 350, though). I now have about 1200 miles one them, with no tire or mechanical complaints. When they wear out, I intent to replace them with the exact same tires. I am quite happy with them, even when the engine was bone stock.

I will say that I have become stuck in mud and clay with these tires, but never a place where anyone else made it though. Not every mud hole can be ridden, no matter what you ride! But I have gone through mud holes where Polaris 4x4’s with lesser tires became mired down.

I’m not convinced the either tire is significantly better than the other in mud. But we do know Vampires are heavier, and I guess we’ve all heard and read complaints about how the Vampires handle on hard pack, vs. praise for the Claws on hard-pack. In the end, I see no reason at all to buy Vampires in the smaller sizes. In the 27" sizes only, the one test available indicates the new Tri-Claws are heavier and less efficient than the 27" Vampires.

When the Bi-Claws on my Honda 300 wear out, I’m replacing them with the exact same tires. Like most serious mud tires, they ride harsh and stiff, but they have great resistance to punctures. I have nothing but praise for the Bi-Claw/Tri-Claw combination on my Kawasaki Prairie 400 4x4, as well. But now we’re talking about a lot more power, and a CVT tranny. This is my real mud machine!

My 450ES has 27x9x12 Blackwater XT’s on all four wheels. They offer a good all-purpose tread with a comfortable ride, and they handle very well, but they are not serious mud tires like the Claws and Vampires. Also, the two XT’s on my rear wheels have more repair plugs between them than all my other ten tires combined! When it comes to resisting punctures, I don’t think the XT’s are any better than the stock tires. I will NOT be buying Blackwater XT’s again! When the XT’s expire, I intend to replace them with four 26x11x12 Bi-Claws like those on the rear of my 300. I no longer enjoy playing in the mud like I used to, so I no longer need such a serious mud tire. But I very much want their good handling features and great resistance to punctures.

Honda 300 4x4 riders should be aware that they have sort of a "built-in" winch at the exposed left side of the rear axle. If you get stuck in a simple mud hole, you can wrap a suitable rope around the left axle (wrap it under, forward, upward, and then back over a few times), then tie it to the left rear wheel. Then as you spin the tires in reverse, the axle will act like a winch to slowly pull you out. Gettin the muddy rope off can be messy and time consuming, but it’s better than leaving your quad in the mud when you don’t have a real winch or a come-along. (A simple $19.95 come-along is a great thing to have, especially when riding alone. It will do things even a winch won’t!)

P.S. I’m selling or trading my Prairie 400 to get a new Honda 400. No, not a Foreman 400 4x4, and not a 400EX. I’ve been drawn like a moth to a flame, back into the world of two-wheelers, so the new shadow in my garage floor will be from a new XR400.

Now where did I store those old crutches?

 

Originator: Ron_Smith
Posted: 08-16-1999

Hi Gordon. XR400? I don’t believe that I have heard of that model. Is it new?

Ron Smith

 

Originator: mcb
Posted: 08-17-1999

Does anyone know where I can find information on the actual weight of Vampires and Bi-Claws?

Or does anyone know the weights?

Thanks.