Honda Rubicon (general)
#11
11-13-1999, 05:02 PM
Boner,
It just seems strange to me that a quad that promotes such ease of use, as the Rubicon does, has to be needlessly complex.
Maybe they should have had a manual shift option too (aside from any back-up shifter they might have). And what about a manual clutch option too, you'll never know when you might need to slip the clutch. If you are going to put the "bells and whistles" on a quad you might as well go all the way.
Again, the same for liquid cooling. Why depart from the old "tried and true" air cooling? You missed my point on the suspension too. They should have made the Rancher with basically the same suspension travel numbers and quality as the Rubicon.
In essence, I'm sure it will be a fine quad, it's just that if you want to win over the Polaris market place, you'll have to make it a lot less complicated.
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Mike Chero 97 Polaris Sport 400L/ 97 Polaris Trailblazer 250ES
<A HREF="http://users.penn.com/~hal9000/mikeetta.html">MIKE & CELESTE'S ATV PAGE </A>
It just seems strange to me that a quad that promotes such ease of use, as the Rubicon does, has to be needlessly complex.
Maybe they should have had a manual shift option too (aside from any back-up shifter they might have). And what about a manual clutch option too, you'll never know when you might need to slip the clutch. If you are going to put the "bells and whistles" on a quad you might as well go all the way.
Again, the same for liquid cooling. Why depart from the old "tried and true" air cooling? You missed my point on the suspension too. They should have made the Rancher with basically the same suspension travel numbers and quality as the Rubicon.
In essence, I'm sure it will be a fine quad, it's just that if you want to win over the Polaris market place, you'll have to make it a lot less complicated.
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Mike Chero 97 Polaris Sport 400L/ 97 Polaris Trailblazer 250ES
<A HREF="http://users.penn.com/~hal9000/mikeetta.html">MIKE & CELESTE'S ATV PAGE </A>
#12
11-13-1999, 08:29 PM
Mike, did you ever notice what ATV is on almost every cover of those magazines now? It's the Bombardier DS650. The reason for this is they, just like the public, get excited whenever a new sport machine is coming out. When the 400EX came out, that was an awakening of a new era, the comeback of the high performance machines! That is why those sport machines have so much cover time. If Polaris would put some R&D time on their sport machines, and offer a high performance machine, you would probably get sick of seeing it on the cover of every issue!
I would imagine once the machine is out in the showrooms, and Honda explains their automatic design, then the public will eventually learn about it, enough to possibly fix it themselves, especially if the magazines do an article on how it works.
There are a lot of times when I would prefer to be able to shift instead of have an automatic. If you ever tow something that the machines has its pants full with, you will know that low gearing is nice. With automatics, even in low range, they just aren't geared low enough to keep the speeds down and the rpms down. That's where it would be nice to be able to put it in a gear by yourself.
[This message has been edited by rooster (edited 11-13-1999).]
I would imagine once the machine is out in the showrooms, and Honda explains their automatic design, then the public will eventually learn about it, enough to possibly fix it themselves, especially if the magazines do an article on how it works.
There are a lot of times when I would prefer to be able to shift instead of have an automatic. If you ever tow something that the machines has its pants full with, you will know that low gearing is nice. With automatics, even in low range, they just aren't geared low enough to keep the speeds down and the rpms down. That's where it would be nice to be able to put it in a gear by yourself.
[This message has been edited by rooster (edited 11-13-1999).]
#15
11-14-1999, 12:02 AM
OK, here's the Rubicon short sheet..
1.500cc, liquid-cooled 4 valve head, more power claimed than ANY other multi-use ATV
2. hydromechanical tranny, totally-sealed,with 3 shift modes. Uses engine oil (4 qt capacity, will even run if water gets in the oil..)
3. torque-sensing front diff
4. full-time fwd that steers like 2wd
5. under 600 lbs
I don't know why some out there thinks its complicated. Looks alot simpler to me that other brands. No belts to wear out and slip. Honda bulletproof quality. Can't wait to see a more detailed review!
1.500cc, liquid-cooled 4 valve head, more power claimed than ANY other multi-use ATV
2. hydromechanical tranny, totally-sealed,with 3 shift modes. Uses engine oil (4 qt capacity, will even run if water gets in the oil..)
3. torque-sensing front diff
4. full-time fwd that steers like 2wd
5. under 600 lbs
I don't know why some out there thinks its complicated. Looks alot simpler to me that other brands. No belts to wear out and slip. Honda bulletproof quality. Can't wait to see a more detailed review!
#16
11-14-1999, 08:35 AM
I don't know guys, perhaps I'm missing the point about shifting. Up until the time that I purchased my first auto tranny quad (two years ago) I have ridden standard shift/auto clutch three wheelers and manual shift/ manual clutch dirt bikes, cars and trucks. I started riding in 1973 (yes, I remember the silver tanked Honda Elsinore CR250) and since I started riding my Polaris quads, I frankly don't want to go back. I would routinely go up hills in either too low a gear (not good for momentum) or bog out in too high a gear and have to shift down (even worse for momentum). With ANY kind of auto tranny I never lose momentum. This applies from my Ford Bronco to my Sport 400. The power on the auto tranny machines is ALWAYS there.
While perusing through this websites video archive, I came upon a short Mpeg that featured a gentleman on a Kawasaki Tecate trying to climb a small hill. Needless to say he was in too tall a gear and couldn't get it shifted down fast enough to avoid rolling backwards and crashing and burning.
I first thought that this was rather humorous and kind of felt bad for the guy. Then I started to think, Geez my girlfriend could have made it up that hill on her Trailblazer. Mind you, she only has one year of riding experience too.
I had a similar experience at Cochranton this year. A guy who we were riding with on a brand new Banshee got stalled on the worst hillclimb on trail "C". He let the motor come off the pipe and had a heck of a time getting up and over. I was behind him and was stopped on the hill too. As soon as the way was clear, I started around him and made it up over the hill with no sweat. I doubt if I could have made it over that hill with a manual clutch or even an auto clutch with a manual shift without backing up and going down the hill for another try.
The point I'm trying to make is that autos are much better as woods machines than the manual trannies. I have never felt the need for having one lower gear on both Polaris machines. I have a strange feeling that Honda will see the light too, some day, and offer an "auto only" Rubicon. For those who like to shift, they'll come out with one that either manually shifts or shifts electric. When the Rubicons start appearing on the trails, I'll look to see what drive range they are running in. I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of them will be running in auto.
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Mike Chero 97 Polaris Sport 400L/ 97 Polaris Trailblazer 250ES
<A HREF="http://users.penn.com/~hal9000/mikeetta.html">MIKE & CELESTE'S ATV PAGE </A>
While perusing through this websites video archive, I came upon a short Mpeg that featured a gentleman on a Kawasaki Tecate trying to climb a small hill. Needless to say he was in too tall a gear and couldn't get it shifted down fast enough to avoid rolling backwards and crashing and burning.
I first thought that this was rather humorous and kind of felt bad for the guy. Then I started to think, Geez my girlfriend could have made it up that hill on her Trailblazer. Mind you, she only has one year of riding experience too.
I had a similar experience at Cochranton this year. A guy who we were riding with on a brand new Banshee got stalled on the worst hillclimb on trail "C". He let the motor come off the pipe and had a heck of a time getting up and over. I was behind him and was stopped on the hill too. As soon as the way was clear, I started around him and made it up over the hill with no sweat. I doubt if I could have made it over that hill with a manual clutch or even an auto clutch with a manual shift without backing up and going down the hill for another try.
The point I'm trying to make is that autos are much better as woods machines than the manual trannies. I have never felt the need for having one lower gear on both Polaris machines. I have a strange feeling that Honda will see the light too, some day, and offer an "auto only" Rubicon. For those who like to shift, they'll come out with one that either manually shifts or shifts electric. When the Rubicons start appearing on the trails, I'll look to see what drive range they are running in. I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of them will be running in auto.
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Mike Chero 97 Polaris Sport 400L/ 97 Polaris Trailblazer 250ES
<A HREF="http://users.penn.com/~hal9000/mikeetta.html">MIKE & CELESTE'S ATV PAGE </A>
#18
11-14-1999, 02:36 PM
First of all, Mike, you are way to Polaris minded or Polaris biased. You seem like one of those persons that will never say something bad about your machine, or one of its weaknesses.
Now, when I say that the manual shifts are better at certain pulling tasks, I mean the real hard pulls, pulls that will get all four wheels just digging. I recently digged potatoes with a potato digger that has handles for a second person to control (the first person has to run the fourwheeler that's pulling it). Since the potato rows are too close together, a tractor can't be used, and a fourwheeler is just perfect for straddling the rows. I've tried the Sportsman500 on it, and it just isn't geared low enough for something like this. It runs way too many rpm to get it moving, and then lurches forward when it starts it moving. I've also tried a manual shift, and it is a lot better, since the first gear is geared low enough to get the digger moving easily, the engine at a controllable rpm, and the person steering the digger to keep up with it. And like boner said, for certain tasks, or certain people, will like the ability to choose your own gears.
I've been riding on some really steep hills recently with my 300EX. I have no problems on hills, I usually take them in second, and sometimes that is too slow so I go to third. It handles hills no problem.
I also have that video that you watched, and I believe that guy had something wrong with his clutch, making it so he couldn't make it up the hill.
[This message has been edited by rooster (edited 11-14-1999).]
Now, when I say that the manual shifts are better at certain pulling tasks, I mean the real hard pulls, pulls that will get all four wheels just digging. I recently digged potatoes with a potato digger that has handles for a second person to control (the first person has to run the fourwheeler that's pulling it). Since the potato rows are too close together, a tractor can't be used, and a fourwheeler is just perfect for straddling the rows. I've tried the Sportsman500 on it, and it just isn't geared low enough for something like this. It runs way too many rpm to get it moving, and then lurches forward when it starts it moving. I've also tried a manual shift, and it is a lot better, since the first gear is geared low enough to get the digger moving easily, the engine at a controllable rpm, and the person steering the digger to keep up with it. And like boner said, for certain tasks, or certain people, will like the ability to choose your own gears.
I've been riding on some really steep hills recently with my 300EX. I have no problems on hills, I usually take them in second, and sometimes that is too slow so I go to third. It handles hills no problem.
I also have that video that you watched, and I believe that guy had something wrong with his clutch, making it so he couldn't make it up the hill.
[This message has been edited by rooster (edited 11-14-1999).]
#19
11-15-1999, 10:33 AM
Rooster,
I wasn't just defending the Polaris models, but all autos INCLUDING the Honda Rubicon.
Perhaps you're right about manual trannies for work. I have never done a lick of work on any machine I've had (three/four wheelers).My riding was for recreation only. Still, I wouldn't mind having an automatic transmission for my old International Harvester 300.
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Mike Chero 97 Polaris Sport 400L/ 97 Polaris Trailblazer 250ES
<A HREF="http://users.penn.com/~hal9000/mikeetta.html">MIKE & CELESTE'S ATV PAGE </A>
I wasn't just defending the Polaris models, but all autos INCLUDING the Honda Rubicon.
Perhaps you're right about manual trannies for work. I have never done a lick of work on any machine I've had (three/four wheelers).My riding was for recreation only. Still, I wouldn't mind having an automatic transmission for my old International Harvester 300.
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Mike Chero 97 Polaris Sport 400L/ 97 Polaris Trailblazer 250ES
<A HREF="http://users.penn.com/~hal9000/mikeetta.html">MIKE & CELESTE'S ATV PAGE </A>
#20
11-15-1999, 10:34 AM
The same points can be made on any quad. Why shift? why not?
The same goes for the Polaris Sportsman 500. Why have independant rear suspension? It's great if you putt along at 5mph. But take a corner at speed and the thing almost tips over.
It's all about the buyer. The Rubicon has a shifting option for those of us that want to shift. The Sportsman 500 has independant rear suspension for those of us that want a smooth ride at 5mph.
The customer buys what suits them best.
Chris "00" 300EX
The same goes for the Polaris Sportsman 500. Why have independant rear suspension? It's great if you putt along at 5mph. But take a corner at speed and the thing almost tips over.
It's all about the buyer. The Rubicon has a shifting option for those of us that want to shift. The Sportsman 500 has independant rear suspension for those of us that want a smooth ride at 5mph.
The customer buys what suits them best.
Chris "00" 300EX