What I’d Like To See Honda Do
#1
09-19-2002, 02:47 PM
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"Honda-eo, oh Honda-eo! Wherefore art thou my Honda-eo?"
OK, it’s my turn. I have been resisting the urge to jump in the various conversations about what Honda’s going do to satisfy all the hard-core high performance buffs here. But, here I go…let me stoke the fire up a little bit. (I tend to get a bit long winded, by the way.)
First off, Honda and Suzuki are by far my favorite brands when it comes to ATVs and dirt bikes. Yamaha comes in a very, very close second with their ATVs (so close you couldn’t squeeze an ant’s hair between ‘em). Both Kawasaki and Yamaha are third when it comes to dirt bikes. The Honda and Suzuki machines I tortured as a youth were nearly bulletproof and either one was just as reliable as the other. The two worst repairs ever (aside from the normal wear and tear parts – dirty carburetors, worn sprockets and chains) were a cracked frame on one Suzuki (come up short on a double jump – ouch!) and a busted chain guard on a Honda (chain came off and went ***** out!). That’s a pretty good record, I think.
Anyway, I just had to place that disclaimer there for all the ATV enthusiast profilers out there. Just to save you a little work, I guess. But, regardless, this topic is about HONDA. Yes, Ol’ Big Red.
These days, everyone’s picking on Ol’ Red because they didn’t announce a new sport quad on September 12th. Since then, the 400EX has been denoted from King Red to just that of the red-haired stepchild. (No offense to any redheaded stepchildren out there - it’s just a local expression.) That’s a shame because the 400EX is STILL a great machine. What’s more, the 400EX is only three years old (been around for four, I know) and has proven itself worthy in nearly every way. But, the 400EX is not the fastest thing available anymore and everyone is expecting Honda to answer the challenge posed by its very formidable competition from Yamaha, Suzuki, Cannondale, and others.
I am sure, with Honda’s history and reputation, there is a quad or two in the works to meet that challenge. Whenever these machines are announced and available, excitement will be restored to the Honda faithful. Not only that, but I fully expect to see cats and dogs make up, Democrats and Republicans embrace, and terrorists abroad surrender in glee. OK, so that’s a slight exaggeration, but you get the point – some of you are obviously waiting on Honda’s “big news” so seriously that you’re about to wet all over yourselves in frustration.
Well, until Ol’ Red’s announcement we can only speculate and daydream. And daydream I have. If Honda were my company, here’s what I’d do:
1) First, I’d add reverse and a backup kick starter to the 400EX. Other than that, maybe some exciting new graphics and she’s done. Right then, I’d have made the 400EX a near perfect trail and recreation machine.
2) Second, I’d make a new machine for the racers out there. The engine would be a liquid-cooled 420 – 450cc four stroke with all the latest performance gadgets and gizmos. It must be faster and at the very least a little bigger than the Suzuki and must be at least competitive with the Cannondales. A six-speed tranny with NO reverse would be the order of the day. Add to that a lightweight frame (possibly aluminum), include nerf bars and legendary Honda handling and there ya go! Instant championship material.
3) I’d update the 250EX chassis and suspension and add a backup kick starter. I would possibly bump the displacement up a bit and seek a little more oomph from the little ATV’s power mill.
4) For the 300EX, I would lower the price, change the reverse shifting procedure, add a backup kick starter and bold, exciting new graphics for the next model year. The 300EX has a loyal following and I wouldn’t want to mess with that.
5) I would produce a 500EX. This would be the 250EX’s big brother. 500cc liquid cooled engine, electric and kick starting, shaft drive, five or six-speed tranny with an automatic clutch and reverse. This would be the ultimate beginner’s quad.
6) Finally, I would go hog wild and unleash at least 700cc of high performance fury with a manual clutch, six-speed tranny, reverse, chain drive, and of course, electric and kick starting. It should be lightweight for its size (430 – 475lbs) and produce … ahum…. at least 60hp in stock form. I would call it the “Widowmaker”.
Let’s see…that makes one, two, three… six machines in all to answer the call of the wild. Yep, I guess that would cover it, wouldn’t it? I’d sure hate to miss something.
Why so many? I think, like dirt bikes, there should be sport ATVs designed purely for competition use as well as those designed for general recreation and trail riding. Trail and recreation machines should be simple, rugged, fun, and above all, reliable. Racers should be light in weight, high performing, and come prepared to race. This includes such things as good nerf bars, a tether style kill switch and be shod of all things unnecessary, such as lights and reverse gear. I tend to favor purpose built machines rather than requiring the consumer to spend additional large amounts of money to transform a recreational machine into a racer or vice versa. Also, I think it downright inexcusable for a manufacturer to not include reverse and a backup kick starter on any recreational sport machine.
Anyway, that’s what I think Honda ought to do. Regardless, whatever Honda decides to release in the future I am sure will be a great machine. They may not produce exactly what we expect and when we expect it, but in the end I don’t think they will let us down.
There ya have it, and there ya are.
OK, it’s my turn. I have been resisting the urge to jump in the various conversations about what Honda’s going do to satisfy all the hard-core high performance buffs here. But, here I go…let me stoke the fire up a little bit. (I tend to get a bit long winded, by the way.)
First off, Honda and Suzuki are by far my favorite brands when it comes to ATVs and dirt bikes. Yamaha comes in a very, very close second with their ATVs (so close you couldn’t squeeze an ant’s hair between ‘em). Both Kawasaki and Yamaha are third when it comes to dirt bikes. The Honda and Suzuki machines I tortured as a youth were nearly bulletproof and either one was just as reliable as the other. The two worst repairs ever (aside from the normal wear and tear parts – dirty carburetors, worn sprockets and chains) were a cracked frame on one Suzuki (come up short on a double jump – ouch!) and a busted chain guard on a Honda (chain came off and went ***** out!). That’s a pretty good record, I think.
Anyway, I just had to place that disclaimer there for all the ATV enthusiast profilers out there. Just to save you a little work, I guess. But, regardless, this topic is about HONDA. Yes, Ol’ Big Red.
These days, everyone’s picking on Ol’ Red because they didn’t announce a new sport quad on September 12th. Since then, the 400EX has been denoted from King Red to just that of the red-haired stepchild. (No offense to any redheaded stepchildren out there - it’s just a local expression.) That’s a shame because the 400EX is STILL a great machine. What’s more, the 400EX is only three years old (been around for four, I know) and has proven itself worthy in nearly every way. But, the 400EX is not the fastest thing available anymore and everyone is expecting Honda to answer the challenge posed by its very formidable competition from Yamaha, Suzuki, Cannondale, and others.
I am sure, with Honda’s history and reputation, there is a quad or two in the works to meet that challenge. Whenever these machines are announced and available, excitement will be restored to the Honda faithful. Not only that, but I fully expect to see cats and dogs make up, Democrats and Republicans embrace, and terrorists abroad surrender in glee. OK, so that’s a slight exaggeration, but you get the point – some of you are obviously waiting on Honda’s “big news” so seriously that you’re about to wet all over yourselves in frustration.
Well, until Ol’ Red’s announcement we can only speculate and daydream. And daydream I have. If Honda were my company, here’s what I’d do:
1) First, I’d add reverse and a backup kick starter to the 400EX. Other than that, maybe some exciting new graphics and she’s done. Right then, I’d have made the 400EX a near perfect trail and recreation machine.
2) Second, I’d make a new machine for the racers out there. The engine would be a liquid-cooled 420 – 450cc four stroke with all the latest performance gadgets and gizmos. It must be faster and at the very least a little bigger than the Suzuki and must be at least competitive with the Cannondales. A six-speed tranny with NO reverse would be the order of the day. Add to that a lightweight frame (possibly aluminum), include nerf bars and legendary Honda handling and there ya go! Instant championship material.
3) I’d update the 250EX chassis and suspension and add a backup kick starter. I would possibly bump the displacement up a bit and seek a little more oomph from the little ATV’s power mill.
4) For the 300EX, I would lower the price, change the reverse shifting procedure, add a backup kick starter and bold, exciting new graphics for the next model year. The 300EX has a loyal following and I wouldn’t want to mess with that.
5) I would produce a 500EX. This would be the 250EX’s big brother. 500cc liquid cooled engine, electric and kick starting, shaft drive, five or six-speed tranny with an automatic clutch and reverse. This would be the ultimate beginner’s quad.
6) Finally, I would go hog wild and unleash at least 700cc of high performance fury with a manual clutch, six-speed tranny, reverse, chain drive, and of course, electric and kick starting. It should be lightweight for its size (430 – 475lbs) and produce … ahum…. at least 60hp in stock form. I would call it the “Widowmaker”.
Let’s see…that makes one, two, three… six machines in all to answer the call of the wild. Yep, I guess that would cover it, wouldn’t it? I’d sure hate to miss something.
Why so many? I think, like dirt bikes, there should be sport ATVs designed purely for competition use as well as those designed for general recreation and trail riding. Trail and recreation machines should be simple, rugged, fun, and above all, reliable. Racers should be light in weight, high performing, and come prepared to race. This includes such things as good nerf bars, a tether style kill switch and be shod of all things unnecessary, such as lights and reverse gear. I tend to favor purpose built machines rather than requiring the consumer to spend additional large amounts of money to transform a recreational machine into a racer or vice versa. Also, I think it downright inexcusable for a manufacturer to not include reverse and a backup kick starter on any recreational sport machine.
Anyway, that’s what I think Honda ought to do. Regardless, whatever Honda decides to release in the future I am sure will be a great machine. They may not produce exactly what we expect and when we expect it, but in the end I don’t think they will let us down.
There ya have it, and there ya are.
#2
09-19-2002, 03:10 PM
Man, everything with a kick starter. In my whole life, I have never needed a backup starter on any bike. Just extra useless weight. Better yet, leave the electric starter off, and we'll kick our bikes over like REAL MEN SHOULD!!
Honda is just producing to many different models already. It makes the company fat, and slow to respond to changes in the market. They need to dump all the old tech stuff, and settle on just a few high tech engines, and run them throughout the MX, off-road, and quad lines (a CRF450EX, a CRF250EX, and a CRF125EX---see my post on the new CRF250 dirt bikes). Keep the 250EX for adult beginners, and the 90 for the kids. And no more new utility quads.
Honda is just producing to many different models already. It makes the company fat, and slow to respond to changes in the market. They need to dump all the old tech stuff, and settle on just a few high tech engines, and run them throughout the MX, off-road, and quad lines (a CRF450EX, a CRF250EX, and a CRF125EX---see my post on the new CRF250 dirt bikes). Keep the 250EX for adult beginners, and the 90 for the kids. And no more new utility quads.
#3
09-19-2002, 03:18 PM
All very good ideas. One thing about the 400EX, its going on its 5th model year without any changes (except for the yellow that came out 2 years ago). That is what I find disturbing. Its their top-of-the-line sport quad, and needed some updates to compete with everything that has come out since. They sure don't let a CR125 or 250 stay the same for 5 years. Now, if they had a true race quad, then it would be ok. People don't expect the XR to change like a CR. Idea 2 is what everyone wanted and what people expected. If Honda had done that, then I don't think you would have seen the tide turn against the EX like we have seen.
PS No offense taken on the red headed step-child comment, I am red
headed, but not a step-child[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
PS No offense taken on the red headed step-child comment, I am red
headed, but not a step-child[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
#4
09-19-2002, 03:35 PM
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Honda keeps on using even there commercials over and over and over, especially the one where they show all the products they make. That commercial is over 3 years old just like the 400ex.
I am surprised Honda isn't making a kitchen sink yet, with 50 different models.
Chet
VP KNOWSALOT FACILITY
I am surprised Honda isn't making a kitchen sink yet, with 50 different models.
Chet
VP KNOWSALOT FACILITY
#5
09-19-2002, 06:53 PM
I like alot of your ideas and think the quads should just be kickstart to save not only weight but money. I mean how hard is it really to kick start a machine? Id much rather have to do that little extra work and save money in the long run and not have to worry about the dumb battery and what not. And i also am a red head, just not a step child.
#6
09-19-2002, 07:23 PM
yamblaster98, kick starting your Blaster is a piece of cake. A Banshee is a piece of cake to kick. A 4 stroke, especially a big bore and/or high compression one is very hard to kick. World of difference. Go out and find a YZF426 or CRF450 and give it a kick and you'll see what I mean. 4 strokes need electric start.
#7
09-19-2002, 07:32 PM
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There are 8 platforms in the Honda ATV lineup
[1] Recon S / Recon ES / 250EX
[2] Rancher 2WD / Rancher 4WD / Rancher ES 2WD / Rancher ES 4WD
[3] Foreman 400 / Foreman 450S / Foreman 450ES
[4] Rubicon 500
[5] Rincon 650
[6] 90
[7] 300EX
[8] 400EX
The dirtbikes consist of 9 platforms.
[1]XR50 / XR70
[2]XR80 / XR100 / CRF150F
[3]XR200 / CRF230F
[4]XR250
[5]CRF250R / CRF250X
[6]XR400
[7]CRF450R
[8]XR650R
[9]XR650L
[1] Recon S / Recon ES / 250EX
[2] Rancher 2WD / Rancher 4WD / Rancher ES 2WD / Rancher ES 4WD
[3] Foreman 400 / Foreman 450S / Foreman 450ES
[4] Rubicon 500
[5] Rincon 650
[6] 90
[7] 300EX
[8] 400EX
The dirtbikes consist of 9 platforms.
[1]XR50 / XR70
[2]XR80 / XR100 / CRF150F
[3]XR200 / CRF230F
[4]XR250
[5]CRF250R / CRF250X
[6]XR400
[7]CRF450R
[8]XR650R
[9]XR650L
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#8
09-19-2002, 07:42 PM
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#9
09-19-2002, 08:39 PM
Wyoduner. i know what your talking about how the blaster and banshee are fairly easy. Don't the new machines have the auto decompression and what not? i just personally would rather have to kick and it being a pain that spending lets say 500 or so less they could get ridda it for without the electric start in a machine. Also i find it easier to kick start a quad... What about rodsquads doesnt he have a custom 450? i want to hear how bad that is to get goin?
#10
09-19-2002, 08:41 PM