What type of racing was this?

 

A 400EX rider who beats piped/carbed banshee's has great abilities.

Chet
VP Knowsalot Facility

 

But the thing is, they switched sides and did it multiple times. ANd I bleieve they may have switch machines also.

 

Do you know what that gains are by piping/jetting/filtering a 400EX??? 2HP!!! That's right! It's right there in the rags.



Really??! What I find ludicrous is someone saying a lower powered quad will win. Asinine! 1-2 hp is a very noticable difference when we are talking about these light machines. Granted, riders and other variables(traction, ect.) will need to be the same. Rider is very important, but right now we are comparing EX to Z, the machines. The Z will WIN EVERYTIME with equal variables due to it's higher power.




No. But, the rags have! You should read those articles, I have. They claim what just about everyone else in this forum does. The Z is FASTER, and an overall better machine.

I'm not part of Suzuki's R&D team so I can't answer the 1st part. However, I think it is very smart of them to go head to head with the supposedly #1 manufacturer, Honda, and up them on each machine. Very smart. Ozark/Recon, Z/EX, Rubicon/Vinson. They are offering more performance for equal or less money. As far as the chassis, don't fix what ain't broke. Everyone knows the EX is, well now, was, the best handling quad being made. I see no prob. with taking an extremely good geometrical chassis and making it more competitive, like YOU said "step it up a notch". And, those measily 1-2 hp is enough to put the Z in front EVERYTIME. Of course, I have to put the disclaimer: Assuming variables and riders are equal. I find that a great way of competing. Try to steal the market right out from underneath them, give better performance FOR THE SAME PRICE! Go Suzuki. Puts the bar up a little higher, so Honda WILL have to come out with something better. Unless, of course, people keep buying outdated 400EX's. Also, did you even real coolhuh's posts? He OWNS both and what did he say?



Then you will be behind the Z and way behind the Raptor. Don't worry though, you'll be ok since BOTH of those machines have brake lights. And, since you won't be leading, you won't have to worry about where you can and can't go to make you have to jump off the machine to backup.

Not to mention(although, I think I already have), giving Honda, yet another reason why NOT to come out with a new quad.

Oh, the facts are there, the question is will you accept them? I will admit, though, my opinion heavily goes toward the Z vs. the EX.

Well, ya did! So here hear it is, right back at ya! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Really? Like what? I haven't seen Honda come out on top of anything, for quite sometime, when going up against the new quads. Be it 4x4, sport, anything...

Ummmm...again, what quad is the Z BASED off of? So, YES! Face that fact.


For the money, the Z is a better value. Period. I can't help you if you can't see how the Z's engine has more potential. You may, however, want to do some more research to obtain the knowledge that will allow you to see this. Can the EX be modded to run like a bat-out-of-hell? Sure! How fast do you want to spend? Dollar for dollar I think you will find the Z to be ahead.

 

Rocket,
Please tell us what you have done to your EX. I'm sure with the right mods and good rider abilities this is certainly possible. I got beat by an EX on my buddies piped/jetted/filtered Raptor the 1st few times we raced. Simply because I couldn't launch very well. Once I started getting the take off down better, it didn't stand a chance. Although, even if I got a really bad start and he got a good one, I was coming fast and hard b4 the 300' mark. I suck, I know. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] Just need some more practice! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Modded,
You mention the Mojave. Tell me a 250cc FOUR STROKE that will outrun it. Try your 250X against it. You will get beat. I think the Mojave runs great for a 250.

 

quote from stebob:

stebob - Check out the GNCC racing results for this year. Honda's appear to come out on top quite often there.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's great that Cannondale, Polaris, Suzuki, etc... have come out with new sport quads. Only improves the sport. As a 400ex owner, I have to get my licks in while I can. It's only a matter of time until the better riders switch to other quads and start beating Honda.

 

Fred,
You're quite right. However, the bikes being run are FAR from stock, even a real good stretch from just being piped/jetted/filted. Also, the majority of racing quads out there right now are Honda's. So they should be pulling in most of the wins. I would be willing to make a bet. If the Z, Raptor, Cannondale, and EX all came out at the same time. The Honda would not be prevailing as it does. The Honda was out long enough by itself and be the only true "sport"
quad avail. that had such great handling characteristics to allow everyone to get one and mod it up. I think most people with EX's are not willing to change to a new quad right now for 2 reasons. 1 think is just ignorant, but only my opinion, and the reason is because it doesn't say Honda on the side. The other is because they have put so much money into them they will never recoup even half of what they've spent on it. My friend with the 400EX isn't getting rid of his for these 2 very reasons. These are just my speculations, though, for the majority out there. And, to add what you were mentioning, it's the rider. Put them on another quad and they will do just as well, I'm sure. They will tailor the quad to match their riding style and bam, they are in the lead. With those caliber riders, the machine beneath them, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference, as long as it's a competitive machine, anyhow.

 

I have and I have beat them with a stock X running only a pipe/filter! The rider on the Mojave is alot better than I am also(was 8th in the nation in 91)... Also, I have owned a Mojave. They are nice machines for just riding, but have no place on a track in any type of racing! I have raced people on 400's, 300ex's, Mojaves, etc. I have beaten them all on the track and I am not that good of a rider!

Still I stick with Honda(maybe a Raptor, but I dont want to run open class). Maybe someday I will be in here by myself waving the Honda flag, but I highly doubt that. Honda has prevailed in the past and will prevail in the future. Every company has tried to compete but for the last 16 years, Honda has been on top!

And as far as your comment to Fred, the riders of the other brands have the same opportunities to "hop up" their rides just like the Honda guys!

 

The Honda 400EX that is leading the Pro Production class is a 500cc machine. FST's Z400 with the same 500cc kit put a 4 to 5 quad holeshot on the whole class including the Raptors in the class. But he wasn't able to ride as well as Baker and Trew and fell behind once they hit the woods. And there has been as high as a 5 to 6 horsepower difference found between a stock ex and a stock z. The 2 horsepower difference is found by taking the lowest rating for a z and the best for an ex. The average hp for a Z seems to be in the 31.3 range for a stock quad. The average hp I've seen on a stock ex is 27.3. That's a 4 horsepower difference which is about what the difference is between a stock Raptor and a stock z .

 

I've seen some pretty darn fast mojave 250's.... The DOHC engine in the mojave isn't what one would consider true DOHC. THe mojave engine, despite havin DOHC's, still uses rocker arms between the cam lobe and the valve. This is a relatively poor design. It works well, don't get me wrong, but the reason for using two overhead cams is to have the cam DIRECTLY influence the valve....one cam for the intake valve(s) and one cam for the exhaust valve(s). The Zuki is a "true" DOHC motor, which gives it a very broad power range. THere is much more tweaking that can be done with a DOHC setup, with regard to engine valve timing. The honda motor is awesome, but the DRZ engine, from what I have seen reacts much better to mods such as exhaust and intake mods.....just my perspective. I'm sure that the air cooling will help immensly with the big bore kits. I'm not sure how effective honda's motor is in dissipating heat when a bore kit is installed, but I'm sure that the water cooling on the Zuki works much better than straight air cooling.

I used to ride at Pismo every week (used to go to Cal Poly SLO). Anyway, I never saw a stock 400 beat a piped/modded Shee in a drag.
I did see a Honda 465 on alcohol blow away piped raps/shee's/and zilla's though. It was darn impressive.

Please don't take this as a flame on the Honda. I think Honda has been ahead of the pack for a while in the quad department. Their 250R is still dominant in almost every aspect. The problem is that now, there are more company's throwing in their entry's into the sport ATV market. I still have talked many friends into buying honda's though. The 400ex is a great all-around ride. If I didn't ride a Cannondale, I would definately be riding a Honda 400EX. My roomate in college has had his since it came out and has yet to have a single problem......