Car retail roughly 20K a good street bike around 10K, Who cares about a 5K quad. WHen I bought my recon new at a dealer that also sold cars, it was like they couldn't be bothered to answer my questions. It was like I was wasting their time and paper buying a lousy $3200 quad compared to a 19k civic SI or Prelude. Thats the way allot of manufactures and dealers work, sad to say. Same thing happened this spring when I bought my 400, they were to busy selling Valcre bikes and Jet skis that they just wanted to get me out of the line fast as possible

 

has what about dirtbikes? i know now they are making these retarded 125, and 230, and the 450, and xr's, but a year ago they still made cr's. i dont know about now, but why couldnt they throw a cr250 engine in a quad frame. it makes no sense to me. i think honda is going weak on us guys. (and girls) but oh well. cant do much about it, unless they do something about it.

 

[
If that is the "Honda way" then why are Honda's street bikes, dirt bikes and cars keeping up with the competition and their ATVs (especially the sport ATVs) are so far behind the competition???]

If Honda is so far behind the competition, then why are they still number one in sales? Other manufactures are condensing their lines and dropping their prices to try and take sales from Honda, and these are manufactures that are supposibly "ahead" of Honda.

It appears to me that the majority of ATV buyer desire the Honda quality and dependability and proven over all trouble free operation over the one that has the fastest acceleration from a dead stop, or the one that crawls through the deepest mud pit.

Enjoy what ever you ride, they are all getting better.

 

Spectra, you didn't answer the question. Why is Honda's ATV development (especially sport ATVs) behind EVERY SINGLE OTHER MANUFACTURER. Honda can adapt in motorcycle and automobile markets, why not ATV????


I'll answer your question "If Honda is so far behind the competition, then why are they still number one in sales?"

I don't know sales numbers but I'll assume you are correct. The answer is simple - BLIND BRAND LOYALTY. There is nothing better about Hondas; on the contrary they are at the bottom of the heap in performance and innovation (No, a rincon is not innovative - 3 speed auto with no low range) . While I have no doubt that Hondas are very reliable I don't see them being significantly more reliable than any other brand (except Polaris). Besides, even if they are a little better it's not THAT much better.

People buy Hondas because it says H O N D A on the side. Blind Brand Loyalty - plain and simple.

Before people start flaming - I am not saying there is anythign wrong with Honda products or Honda owners (I've owned Honda products before) I'm saying that Honda, as a company, doesn't seem to care about the ATV customers, especially the sport ATV customers until it starts affecting their bottom line. I will say, though that a LOT of people follow Honda no matter what - and THAT contributes to Honda's lack of innovative products.

 

WyoDuner,
BLIND BRAND LOYALTY?THERE IS NOTHING BETTER ABOUT HONDA'S?

Oh yah,the Hondamatic trans in the Rubicon is FAR superiour in regards to maintenance/simplicity than ANY belt driven ATV on todays market.I know,I owned two POS Polaris ATVs that were nothing but maintenance headaches,worn clutches,worn belts,bad seals,leaks that will cause your belt to slip,these belt driven types of trannys CANT compare to EITHER of Honda's[can you say] MAINTENANCE FREE AUTO trans.And you say that the Automotive tranny in the Rincon is not innovative?Im wondering what other manufacture uses this non-innovative transmission?And before you dis the trans on the Rincon for no low range,I suggest that you ride one first.I OWN one and you dont need a low range with a 650 engine and this tranny.

I will agree with you that Honda needs to get off there a$$ and start paying attention more to what SOME customers want?I'd of liked to had disk brakes all the way around on the Rincon and a locker 4x4 mode?To my amazement,BOTH front wheels have power to them when in the 4x4 mode[looks like the torque sensing diff finally works].I have spent some time in the mud with the new Rincon and so far,the front drums have not leaked,this is a plus to.They also need to offer a High Perf Sport ATV.I have not sold ONE 400ex since the Suz Z-400 has been out!Honda needs to wake up here.

Why did I switch to a Honda?I started working at a Honda dealership[sales] this past Janurary.And since than,we have had ONE Honda ATV come back into service for warrenty work.It was a Honda Recon with a defective battery.We replaced the battery and have not heard from that customer since.About 35 miles from this dealership,there is another dealer that sells Honda-Suz-Yam-Kaw-Polaris.The owner of this multiline dealership also owns our Honda ONLY dealership.I frequent the multiline dealership about once a week and will tell you first hand that NO other manufacture can boost Honda's reliability record.Heck,one look into ANY ATV related Forum will also verify this.

When a product constantly gives there customers years of trouble free service,that can cause a customer to go back to that product,regardless of what the other manufactures offer?I think this could be a reason for BRAND LOYALTY too?

Bill G.

 

Bill, you state your point VERY well. No argument that Honda is very reliable; I guess my point in that regard is that I can't understand why a person would choose, lets say, GREAT reliability but "the back of the pack" over VERY GOOD relaibility but "ahead of the pack" (other japanese brands). To me that is where I am going with the brand loyalty comments. Mayber Honda has the best reliability but the other brands (again Polaris excluded) have very good reliability.

I'm not a utility rider and it has been about 3 years since I have rode a utility quad (Polaris BTW) ao I mainly focus on sport quads. I still think that Honda dropped the ball with the Rincon but again, I am a sport rider and not well versed in utilities.

It is interesting that you have sold no 400EXs since the Z400 came out. Maybe what I read here and what really happens are 2 different things??? It's easy to say get a Honda to somebody on a forum but not so easy to actually put your own money down and buy a 400ex when you can get a Z400 instead.

I guess if I had one point to make it would be this: Don't sit around waiting for Honda to come out with a better sport/high performance (or utility for that matter) quad when there are so many good choices available NOW from other manufacturers. Brand loyalty will get you nothing from Honda. Stop buying Honda quads THEN and only then will Honda step up and start being competitive in the marketplace based upon the merits of the quad and not the brand name on the side of it.

 

Wyoduner and whoever,

I bought an 02 400ex not long ago, let me tell you why I picked the EX after having the Z400 ordered and waiting to be picked up.

1. I took a look around, what basic engine is still running around? Many un opened for 17 yrs, the 350X!
The 400EX is nothing more than a cross between a 350X and a TRX250R. In my opinion two of the best ATV's ever mass produced.

2. I did not buy the 400EX for my primary bike but as a back up, with little maintenance and always ready to go when I needed it!

3. I read your comment on the other post about 400exs sitting at the bottom of dunes, why is that? Might it be that those people have little idea of how to ride dunes and set there machine up? I have yet to see a 400ex in the dunes with paddles that I would run on mine, heck 9 times out of 10 you can get by with stock rubber at 2psi! People try to run those big heavy paddles on machines that they don't belong on, IMHO paddles on a 400ex don't need to be any longer than 5/8"!

Why can a Raptor and others make it up hills, with the same rider? Because they have enough raw power to overcome rider inabilities! <--- This is dangerous IMHO a rider with more machine than they can handle!

Now incase your wondering my main ride is a 17 yr old TRI-Z, of course after 17 yrs not much can be classified as OEM, but that is what I take out 90% of the time to ride, and that old bike will run dunes with anything produced today!

Neither am I blind or Loyal to any company, I bought what I believe fit my needs, now if it is the slowest worst sport quad on the market in your opinion, well that is your opinion!

For those of you that don't know what a TRI-Z is or have forgotten, give the link a poke!

TRI-Z

There are a few more in this mess! Various Pics

 

WyoDuner,
I agree with you,there is no sense in waiting for Honda to release a performance ATV.God only knows when that will be?There are alot of other ATVs out there that are performance ready and pretty good ATVs too.Honda also makes me mad by not making switchable 2wd-4wd on EVERY 4wd ATV they manufacture,WHY??????It does'nt cost a penny more to manufacture.List price on a 2001 Foreman ES WITHOUT Traxlock[switchable 2wd/4wd]is 6399.The SAME 2002 Foreman WITH TRAXLOC costs the SAME $$ as the 2001 WITHOUT Traxloc,GO FIGURE?Why cant they do the SAME thing for the 350cc Rancher 4x4?Because they DONT listen enough!When sales fall,they'll be FORCED to listen!

For me?I sold my Pull-ar-is ATV back in June of this yr.I got TIRED of the constant repairs.EVERYTIME I rode the darn thing,I had to ask myself''whats next''??[to break]----I knew about the new Rincon and at 45yrs old,my racing days are OVER.I also did not want a belt drive so the Rinny looked like a match for me and I really like it alot.

Nice talking to you.You make some very valid points!

Bill

 

nothing against the 400 its a great reliable mx machine there is just new stuff out if you can find a good used one there a good value
shelby yamaha must have done something rigtht if those "old" quads are still around at least the have come out something new look at the banshee lots of people expecially duners. there is so many new quads since the 400EX atleast yamaha kept there banshee alive while honda discontinuted there 250R which i wish they still made

 

Jeremiah Jones told me a Honda Rep. told him at the last GNC that a 450 Quad was on the way, 04. He wanted some opinions on shock travel.