I really can't decide between the two bikes. One minute I am wanting the 450es, then the next moment I am wanting the 450s. Not really sure about the es mechanism, the longitivity bothers me if it will give any problems.
Also, I wanted to know how the 450 handles the
water. My brother had a recon that just didn't like the water and seemed to stall out.

 

Well, I prefer the 450ES. Full floorboards and the display, along with the ability to put your feet on the front rack and still be able to shift is what I like the the best. I used to ride three wheelers and had to worry about sticks and brush catching your feet. With the ES you just gas it and go, your feet are protected and stay drier. I have almost 1500 miles on my 1999 450ES, and haven't had any trouble. It handles deep water and mud real well. I have crossed several of the river around my house and had the front end completely underwater. I am confident that whichever you chose you will be happy.
Kirk De Foor
1999 450ES
2000 400EX
http://kdefoor.tripod.com

 

I understand that you didn't have a problem when you had the front end in the water, but have you ever had a problem of it drowning out when the water level got around the gas tank. It just seems like that the breather hose is not in the right place like Honda did on the 300's and went all the way to the top of the gas tank.

 

Does the floorboards get in the way

 

I haven't had it in that deep of water. When I had the frontend all the way under I was crossing a river and the front end went into a deep hole, I was able to back out of it and go around it. You might look at www high lifter.com and see their snorkels and there are several post there about adding a snorkel, if you were going to be riding in that deep of water.
The floorboards have never been in the way. I really like having them.

 

I have heard of alot more advantages to the ES than the S. I have only heard two disadvantages to the ES. Can't cluth it between gears(lifting of the shifter and holding it up to get into neutral) and not being able to hold anything in your left hand, ie. coke. I don't consider mud causing the buttons to stick as a disadvantage cause the same thing can happen on the foot shifter. I have had sticks wedge between the foot shifter and the foot peg.


The ES is not any more unreliable than the S. My favorite advantage of the ES is your can pick you feet up while in water and deep mud, but can still shift. I ride with my feet on the front racks alot. The floor boards actually block alot of mud and water from your feet too. You really have to try to get very muddy with the ES.

I honestly haven't meet anybody that has the ES that wished they would have got the S. I have meet many people who have the S and wished they would have got the ES.

The ES will spoil ya. Don't get me wrong I am in no way a fan of continously variable automatic transmisions. I like being able to pick my gear, even the rubicon offers that! I myself poundered for a while on selling my ES to get the Rubicon. The finally decision maker was the car type auto on the rubicon and the choice of ES!!

I'll Never foot shift again!!

 

I WENT WITH THE S DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE ELECTRONIC SHIFTING HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN RELIABLE ENOUGH FOR ME. THEY HAD A RECALL ON THEM ALREADY AND THE DEALER GAVE YOU A SHIFTER IN CASE IT WENT OUT AND LEFT YOU. WITH ALL THE BUTTONS ON THE HANDLEBARS ALREADY, ESPECIALLY THE LEFT ONE, IT'S JUST TOO MUCH. THE AUTO ON THE RUBICON WOULD PROBABLY BE THE WAY TO GO IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SHHIFT. THERE IS REALLY NOTHING FOR YOUR LEFT FOOT TO DO ANYWAY, SO PUT IT TO WORK!! SIMPLER IS ALWAYS BEST WHEN RELIABILITY IS AN ISSUE.

 

The only recall I know of was on the battery drain problem. Also, the dealer doesn't give you a foot shifter. The 450 comes standard with a manual shift lever. Never had to use mine though. My ES has performed flawlessly for the last 2 years. Never had it submerged, but have ridden in very hard rain with no problems at all. Like Gap said..."the ES will spoil ya". I wouldn't trade mine for anything...except maybe a Rubicon.

 

Gap,
I think that every idiot knows that an ES model will never be quite as reliable as a S! I will be the first to admit the the more electronical a machine gets the more sepceptible it becomes to the elements.

As for it spoiling ya....... with drum brakes, air cooling, all time limited slip 4wheel drive, 300+cc,foreman suspension, and a top speed of around 50 I douubt it will be spoiling ya any time soon.

sorry, just blowing off some steam. They are a good machine... I am just saying that compared to some big bores: they aren't all that impressive. I would buy one if it fit my needs, but it doesn't.

Happy riding

 

i took the 450ES
under water and mud up to teh bars.. and nothing happened it just got muddy...


but that happens

the recon is just plain weak the 45oES is a better machine in my eyes