LOL... Good one...

Raffica is an itialian word, In english it means FullAuto or Burst.

Happiness is a warm beltfed!

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You learn something new everyday![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

<FONT face=Verdana size=1>Ozarkrider03</FONT>
Other ATV companys are just as reliable as Honda. The only reason Honda people always talk about reliability is because they have nothing else to talk about because they are behind in everything.

If you know someone who works at a dealership that sells multiple brands including Honda they will tell you that Honda reliability isn't a myth. It's a fact that there are more Honda quads sold each year than any other brand and if you look at that number vs. the repairs number you'll find that it is no myth. I'm not saying that it isn't due to Honda's conservative designs which probably plays an important role in it but reliability isn't a myth. When KNOWSALOT was on the forums he posted some interesting facts about this and you can probably find the thread if you do a search on his screen name.

I would also like to mention a few things. I'm not bashing the Z400 but since it gave you a lot of amo for your statement what about these facts.

The Z400 has a weaker frame the 400ex even though it's a rip off of it made of the same material. Maybe it's a cheaper grade or the quality control for welding isn't there but there are many posts about the frames breaking and contrary to popular belief they don't all involve crashes. The also couldn't get the axle right and they were bending like mad.

The problems people talk about with the swingarm that people are talking about are the chain adjusment and the fact that the way the rear shock sits in it limits shock travel.

 

This is a "no one can win" topic. Lets look at the facts:
All of the major companies making ATVs have the ability to produce great machines.
They have to factor in cost vs features to be competitive, thats why no quad has the best of everything.
They all try to have something a bit different to offer for a similar price.
If sales are strong on an old model there is no reason to spend money making changes, BUT, all companies are doing R&D work to be ready when sales drop off.
Most of them still offer old technology models because the production costs were paid for long ago, and as long as they are selling, the company is making money. New design investments take a lot of sales to start making money.
As far as Honda goes, they have stuck to old technology on some components--probably to keep the price down and because it is "proven--ie drum brakes", while introducing new technology--ie transmissions---actually not new, but new to a quad--- on the same machine (I'm thinking mainly of the Rubicon and Rincon).
Both of these quads offer something a bit different than the competition, so it depends what you are looking for. The Rubicon is really designed for utility work more than recreation. The Rincon was designed to be a 4 wheel drive recreation machine. Personally I was hoping that it would have a low range, better engine braking, front disc brakes, and a locking front differential like the Prairie's design, and a price similar to the Prairie and Grizzly. Oh well. I guess Honda will have to start making money on it before they add those features or no one could afford it. Besides, they probably didn't want to kill sales of the Rubicon. I love the looks of the Rincon, and it will sell regardless of those features.
Is Honda really falling behind? If sales are the determining factor of success, then theres no doubt that they are not.
I think the reliability thing is a bit overblown these days although Honda is every bit as good as anyone else.
Its great to have so many good machines to choose from.
This is just my opinion.

 

anybody can tear something up regardless of how reliable it is or is supposed to be. i have a 1999 foreman 450S sitting in my carport that will have its 3rd rebuild soon. it belongs to my brother in law and he won't come get the pile of crap. no brakes, front wheel bearings have been replaced twice, it still runs but barely, and it smokes like a train and it starts making a noise and some kind of vibrating when you shift to 3rd. and all he talks about is he would only own a honda. he had a 1999 sportsman 500 before it, and blew the motor in it up. and when he was telling all this to the man that rebuilt the 450 the first time, a local motorcycle and atv mechanic who doesn't have any affiliation with any dealership, the man told him that from what he could tell anything my brother in law owned would fail pretty quickly, so the foreman hardly ever got any maintenance at all and neither did the sportsman, i never saw him do anything to the sportsman and we lived right next door and rode together for a long time.

 

If you want to ride you got to wrench.

The funny thing about this now win topic is:

If you think about it all the big manufacturers have been using technology like aluminum frames, fuel injection and many other things as well in street bikes, dirtbikes or even cars like Honda and Suzuki.They buy these things in large quantities and have all the means to be cost effective with them. Look at what you can get for 7k in a sport bike compared to a 7k quad. They have done all the R&D long ago and only have to adapt the technology using the same basic ideas and principals they use to adapt dirt bike motors to quads. The problem is we as ATVers are the last in line for any of this stuff even thought more ATV's are sold than all bikes combined. The spoon feed us a little technology at a time and we scramble for it. It's a shame there weren't a lot more educated ATV buyers out there because if would help to raise the bar and get us what we want. I have watched at least 3 people I know and talked to many people I've met on the trails who just go to a dealer to buy something and that's it. They have no idea what's out there they don't read magazines or hang out in forums or anything like that. The worst part is I see these guys come home with quads and I think to myself "I can't believe you paid that much for that quad when you could have had this quad"

 

every atv out there has something better than the next, the onlky way there will ever be a perfect atv, is if you put them all together, i will never own anything but a honda, i do not like disc brakes, last time i drove something with disc breaks the damn thing almost caught on fire, sparks were flying everywhere just like fireworks, i dont use breaks enough to worry about then anyway, around here 99.9% of the time you cant go fast or youll bounce yourself off you bike or break your back, i saw a guy that just bought a new polaris 700 twin....asked him how he liked it, there was a long hesitation before he said it was ok...and for the belt drive pieces of junk, hahaha they dont last here, ive seen guys all huffed up and proud about there new auto belt drives, then go into a mud hole thinking they were still doing ok but then it hit them the belt was turning but no tires were, it jut comes down to the type of riding you do, and how much money you have i dont have a lot so i bought a honda that is reliable, not full of every type of liquid and joints and grease nipples and you name it, honda will always be #1 in my book, anything else just wont cut it for what i do...

 

well, you mostly seem like sport riders. I buy ATVs for utility. here in alaska, there isnt much in the way of tracks, just lots of wilderness that is a pure simple joy to explore.

in this respect, some machines can get you more places, faster...

I own a 1990 Honda Fourtrax 300FW and 1993 Polaris 350L 4x4.

by far, the polaris owns it in every category except one... reliability.

To me, the most important, because the damn thing has so many moving parts its gotten me towed back twice.

Its the design intelligence that I LOVE about honda. everything is sealed, everything is designed to AGE and be fine. last summer i popped off the cover for the side of the engine for the first time ever in the 12 years ive owned it. it looked absolutely brand new. not a single thing that i noticed wrong with it. Blew me away. its one of those things that makes you go "wow".

most of the lubricated parts are "once a summer". change the oil, check the diffs, hey, good to ride ALL summer.

this machine has been ABUSED. i am now 21 and theres probably at least 10,000 miles on it. i would take it out every day of the summer, whenever i could. because it handled so beautifully, riding it wasn't just "riding", it was an art. I have video of me jumping it, drowning it (not on purpose), and taking hard turns so it will come up on two wheels, and balancing it on those wheels and driving wherever i wanted (left, right, straight, doesnt matter).

the polaris on the other hand has taught me what NOT to look for. Chains and associated sprockets are bad. When you have moving parts that dont last more than a few years before they need to be replaced - and thats a part of the design - thats bad. messy wiring, hoses, those dont help. belt drive sucks ***. keep those on snowmachines. the worst was all the greasing. even on the new polaris ATV's i see all those bushings and grease joints and just go "ughh".

assuming you really ride your utility quad, that means you do it often, and you do it dirty. water, mud, etc. grease joints get to be a pain, and they will eventually get dirt/mud into them.

This is the advantage of sealed brake drums. no brake fade when you go through a puddle. the polaris has disc brakes all around it stops better, but the rotors score easily and as i said before, dont do crap when wet except brake unevenly.

what else.. oh yeah, the polaris is a 2 cycle. horrible. never should have bought it just because of that.

anyway, those are my opinoins.

 

What do you mean LATELY?!?!?!?! Honda has fallen behind since they stopped production of the 250R back in '89!!!!

In my book, when Honda made the formal announcement that they would NEVER produce another 2-stroke machine, they fell WAY behind! Instead of promoting the sport, and have cutting edge technology, they just tucked their tail and gave up!

I agree w/ WyoDuner!