I have to agree with 2TV. I have a Rem 700 BDL 243 that I love. The only highpower that I love more is my friends Rem 700 17 cal. It is the most accurate true hunting gun I have ever seen. My friend can consistantly shoot a golf ball size pattern at 200 yards. He is a great shooter in the first place but still I dont think i can shoot a baseball size pattern with my 243 at 100-150 yards (which is not the gun and mostly me). Plus the 17 is perfect for small game and does have quite a bit of knockdown power. Plus if you sell furs like I do then you know what kind a whole a 17 Rem leaves in the hide......minimal. I do like the 17 HMR, but for the price and distance I would deffinatly spend the money to get a Rem 700 17 cal instead. I have mostly found anything that I would not shoot in Iowa with my 243 i can usually reach and kill easily with my 22 or 22 mag. I think the 17 HMR would make a good prairie dog gun if anything. Just like anything else depends on what you plan to use it for. There is never one thing that will do everything you ask it to do for you, there is always just that one little thing more that you would love it to do but it just wont seem to.

 

The .17HMR is awesome. My buddy has the CZ and that thing is dead on at 150 yards. I disagree with you guys saying it is limited to prairie dogs, back in Minnesota he uses it for coyotes all the time with no problem, and up here in my small, remote town it is the best selling gun and the locals use them for wolves. One crazy kook (I did not see this, just repeating what I was told) claims to have taken down a moose with one. I guess that is possible (although illegal) if you shot it in the head. I am waiting until Browning makes one before I get mine. They are defiantly here to stay.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean that the HMR is limited to prairie dogs. I know a few guys who have the 17 HMR and also use them for coyotes and love them. It is a very capible gun. And Im sure that it can take down a moose. I have seen small calibers drop very large game more than once, and each time dead with 1 shot. More or less just stating that for the money the 17 HMR is, I would much rather spend a little extra a buy a Rem 700 17 cal. I have seen and shot the 17 HMR and the Rem 700 17 cal and just prefer the Rem 700 better for my needs.

 

There’s no doubt that you can use a .17 HMR on larger critters than rabbits / prairie dogs but you will need to place your shots carefully because it lacks serious knockdown power which could result in less than humane kills. It is better suited to smaller targets and it has the accuracy for that task. The .17 Remington on the other hand is much more potent (with nearly 4 times the muzzle energy of the HMR), although you have to keep the barrel scrubbed otherwise accuracy will suffer. The ultra velocity of the .17 Rem combined with light weight 20 / 25 grain bullets that pretty much disintegrate upon impact, even on small targets, allows a major portion of the bullet’s energy to transfer to the target rather than wasted as a heavier / slower round would that passes clean through with limited deformity. So yes, the .17 Rem is much more versatile and is reloadable. But the .17 HMR is very accurate, fun to shoot and has a report not much louder than the .22 Long Rifle so it has its place in the firearms community…

 

I have the Marlin 17vs and I like it really well - very accurate - especially when I put the rifle basix trigger in it. The factory trigger was a real bugger. I follow alot of threads on the rimfirecentral.com on the effectiveness of this round and on coyotes - I think it will take a coyote out to about a 100 yds if you place the shot perfectly and you have very good optics on your rifle and are confident in your shooting skills. But there is always that twig or something you didn't see or the animal moves just at the wrong time. I think there are more better suited rounds for the coyotes if you are looking at 150 yd distances. As woodrunner stated - it is handy around the populated areas and dairy cattle. It does have it's place with groundhogs and crows too. Coyotes around here reach 40 pounds and higher and they are one tough animal. That 17 grain 17 caliber bullet is asking alot of the round and the shooter, keep your distance close and put it where it counts you will kill it. When you stretch distance and shooting skills - you are asking for an inhumane incident. We don't need that press release.
Best wishes

Don

 

I'm a bit of a gun nut, too. I have the Rem .17 700 and have been contemplating purchasing the rimfire. The .17 with Remington 25 grain is surprisingly accurate. Mine is equipped with a Tasco 40 power and zeroed for 250. Just bought it for fun. Though illegal,it HAS taken many deer. In fact the previous owner had it for that sole purpose. He referred to the rifle as AT&T for obvious reasons.

Has anyone tried the Survivor singleshot (matchgrade/bull barrel) .308.

I just put a pic of the 700 in my photos though it's rather grainy

 

For all of you that are discounting the .17 HMR ($7.75 for a box of 50 rounds of Hornady ammo, or $0.16 each) because it is a non-reloadable rimfire cartridge I thought I’d present you with some calculations I made last night after being asked about the cost of reloading the .17 Remington ($20 retail for a box of 20 rounds, or $1.00 each).

Calculations were made using the following figures (all rounded up to the nearest penny); .17 Rem brass $33.00 / 100 ($0.33 each, assuming each casing is reloadable 6 times makes the relative cost $0.06 each), Hornady .172 caliber 20 grain V-MAX or 25 grain HP bullets $15 / 100 ($0.15 each), 1 lb can of IMR-4895 smokeless powder $14 / can ($0.05 per 24 grain charge for one round), small rifle primers $76 / 5000 ($0.02 each). This brings the cost of a single round of .17 Remington ammo down to $0.28 for a savings of $0.72 per round over factory ammo (but $0.12 more than a round of .17 HMR).

Newbeatle – using the same components as above but substituting the following;10.8 grains of IMR-4227 (assuming the same cost per can as IMR-4895) gives you a powder charge cost of $0.03 per round), Hornady .224 caliber 45 grain bullets $12 / 100 ($0.12 each) and empty brass at $21 / 100 ($0.21 each, assuming each casing is reloadable 6 times makes the relative cost $0.04 each). This allows you to produce .22 Hornet rounds for $0.21 each ($0.47 cheaper per round than factory ammo at $0.68 each, but still $0.05 more than the cost of a round of .17 HMR ammo).

The above calculations assume that you are starting with unfired empty brass rather than factory ammo as a supply for casings. If you started with factory ammo and use the same assumption that each casing can be filled 6 times this gives you 5 reloads per shell after the initial firing. This effectively raises the cost of .17 Rem casings to $0.20 each ($1.00 divided by 5) and .22 Hornet casings to $0.14 each ($0.68 divided by 5). So it is cheaper to start with unfired empty brass for maximum cost savings (however if you can locate once fired brass this would be cheaper than purchasing unfired brass).

What this all means to a person that is contemplating reloading for the .17 Remington, assuming you are starting from scratch, you are going to need a press, reloading handbook, shell holder, dies, power scale, case lube pad, case lube, funnel, case loading block, dial caliper, case trimmer and a primer pocket brush to become well equipped. Let’s assume you get quality equipment at a cost of $500. It will require you to load 695 .17 Rem shells using the component configuration above in order to recover your costs of purchasing the reloading equipment (and this doesn’t take into consideration the cost of electronic powder scales / dispenser which makes the job go much easier and your time spent loading all those shells which can be considerable).

For those of you already equipped with reloading equipment, taking on the .17 Remington may only mean acquiring a shell holder and dies for a cost of $35 which is quickly absorbed after loading a mere 49 shells!

How many reloads you will actually get per casing can vary. Limiting factors include quality of the brass, how much the case is "tooled" when it is resized by the sizing die after firing and how "hot" the load was. And of course the actual cost of components may vary with the supplier that you choose.

Oh, and a cautionary note when reloading the .17 Remington, approach specified maximum loads with caution as it is susceptible to sudden jumps in pressure, so watch for the tell-tale signs such as primer cratering, and inspect your brass carefully for signs of weakness before reloading. Finally back to the point of this post, the .17 HMR is expensive when compared to the .22 LR rimfire for example, but it is still cheaper than what it currently costs to reload the .17 Remington or even the 22 Hornet with quality components. Of course both the Hornet and especially the .17 Rem have more knockdown power than the tiny .17 HMR, but the HMR is still a “fun” gun…

 

Well now we know 2tv isn't a reloader. Guy, I don't know where you got your figures but I'm glad I don't pay your prices. As an example Midway USA offers the RCBS starter kit with everything you need to start loading for $219. Add to that a set of dies for $28 (local dealer) and you are far from that $500 figure and you can't buy any better quality than RCBS. Besides you're not going to write off the cost of equipment until you've used it for a lifetime. You never have to replace it. If something were to wear out or break which seldom ever happens RCBS will replace it at no cost to you. A lot of my equipment is now over 40 years old and has loaded 10s of thousands of rounds if not more.

I just picked up 500 rounds of virgin brass for $88. The bullets I use are less than $100 per 1,000. Well anyway, you get the picture.

Anyone who claims to reload in order to save money is lying to themselves anyway. We reload in order to customize our ammo and allow ourselves to become a better and more confident shooter. We reload out of the satisfaction of being able to create something that does us a better job than anything we could purchase at any cost. It just so happens that in the process we end up producing a product that costs us less and allows us to shoot more for the same bucks.

I, like Newbeatle, won't own anything that isn't reloadable other than the few token 22 rimfires I have. Like I refered to earlier in this thread, if you already have a 17 rem, the only reason to buy a hmr would be for the novelty and not for the need.

By the way. Don't try to use any of the 17 for anything but paper punching, chipmunks, prairie dogs, and the like. Anyone trying to use these things for anything bigger needs to step back into reality.

 

“Dangerous”, I consider myself more of a collector nowadays and I don’t shoot with the regularity that I have in years past but I still do enjoy an occasional target shoot and take problem groundhogs on the farm. I currently buy factory ammo (generally from gun shows) for some of my newer firearm additions and still using reloads I made years ago for some of my older pieces, including my .17 Remington. I don’t have to tell people like you how much things cost, and I did present a disclaimer in my last post that indicated you may find a better (cheaper) source for the components you need, and yes, you can get package deals at less cost than buying components separately and also discounts by buying in bulk. However I listed components separately for a reason and that was in response to a question posed to me by a person that has never reloaded before and was asking about what was involved, so I gave a breakdown along with component prices where I could find them with the little bit of research I did last night. Many of the prices that I posted were obtained from two sources; Natchez Shooters Supply and the Hornady web site (I have favored Hornady bullets in my experience). I also visited a few other sites for ammo / brass prices and did some averaging based upon the prices I saw.

Now as to the $500 figure to get started, here’s how I arrived at that: Hornady 6th Edition Hardcover Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (two volumes) - $51, RCBS Rockchucker Press - $95, shell holder (for the press) - $5.50, 2 die set for one caliber - $27, RCBS 10-10 scale (yes you can get cheaper models) - $110, case loading block - $4.50 (however I made my own), rotary case trimmer - $80 (you can get cheaper here too, but this is the kind I have), primer pocket brush - $11, dial caliper - $60. These total up to $444. But don’t forget the funnel, lube pad and lube (but I didn’t see prices for these during my research). Now after you bring all that stuff home its not going to do you any good unless you have a nice sturdy table (more like a work bench) to mount it on, so I rounded the price up to $500. Like I said before I’m sure you can do better if you spend some time shopping and comparing before you buy.

The only reloading I’ve done in the last two years have been 10 gauge shotshell loads (I have 3 MEC shotshell loaders, each set up for different gauges). The RCBS press I have for my rifle / pistol loading I inherited from my father. He bought it when I was 14 years old (and that was 36 years ago). He never actually used it, I did all the loading for the family. Yes they will last forever if you take care of them. He originally bought it for two reasons, one was to save money, the other was in case big brother made it hard to obtain ammo someday. However IMO if that ever happens you are going to be hard pressed to get components anyway. So really, if you want to reload for whatever reason, have at it. All of the equipment will eventually pay for itself once you’ve loaded so much (i.e. the 695 shell example I posted earlier), or like you said a real enthusiast can fine tune a load for the particular firearm it is going to be used in to obtain maximum accuracy, performance or a combination of both.

BTW don't underestimate the power of the .17 Remington, it is much more potent than the .17 HMR. While it has been in my possession it has been used exclusively on ground hogs. Every hit was an instantaneous one shot kill, just as effective as my .220 Swift and my .308 Win. The only difference between these three calibers is the latter two would nearly rip them in half sometimes while the .17 left only a trace of blood and a small hole. The key to its success was the high velocity (I always loaded it to the max – 4100 fps with 25 grain hollow points). However I have never taken a shot with it beyond 200 yards, nor have I tried to use it on a windy day. I haven’t used the .17 Rem in a while now because of newer additions to my collection, but now that Hornady has a 20 grain V-MAX bullet available for it I’m going to try some loads with them in an attempt to reach their specified maximum of 4300 fps…

 

2TV, sorry you were plastered for answering my stupid questions. Some of us are apparently know-it-alls and we're all the better for even being in their company. As for me, I'm the do-it-yourself type who likes to kill DEER with his .17 and am interested in reloading as a hobby. Not to mention other than start-up, it'll SAVE MONEY and produce a better bullet.

Anyway, Ive all the information and leads you've given me to learn more about the subject. Once again, I appreciate your help and am sorry for the inconvenience.