Range Rover,

You are mostly correct, but take one of your single action revolvers that you have shot thousands and thousands of rounds through and carefully measure the cylinder walls where the case ends and the bullet starts. I doubt that you will have the proper measuring equipment unless you are a gun smith or a machinist, but there will be slight erosion of the cylinder wall in this area. If all you are shooting is 38's no big deal. However, when you fire a 357 the case it will expand to fill the cylinder including the eroded area. This now has the potential of making the case more difficult to remove and will shorten it's life. I am a little **** when it comes to things like this. This process is speed up by firing the +P or the +P+ rounds. Most action shooters I know use relatively light loads in their guns so they don't see this happening very quickly. They also stick to an almost all exclusive diet of 38's because the cases are a little cheaper.

For the average weekend shooter you are absolutely correct, 38's will not harm a .357. I am not an average shooter. I own 3 different progressive presses that stay busy year round (nice living in Phoenix). I also compete in various shooting sports and I am an accuracy nut and squeeze every last ounce I can from my guns.

There has been a lot written on this subject by professionals much more knowledgeable then either of us. Some experts maintain a belief that a steady diet of 38's in a 357 is not good while others will support your position. I think it all comes down to the number of rounds shot in a firearm and if people switch back and forth between the two different rounds.

By the way I reloaded and shot over 40,000 rounds in 2003. Most of these rounds went through a custom .45 auto, a 38 super and a 40 S&W. I shoot wheel guns too, but I do not compete with them like you do.

I live 10 minutes from Ben Avery shooting range in North Phoenix. I work 200 yards from Dillion Precision (makes getting my reloading stuff easy) and I am only 5 minutes from the Scottsdale gun club where I shoot at lunch.

We certainly will not be able to convince each other of the merits of an opposing view through this forum, but if you ever make it out to this part of the country swing by and we'll go shooting.

 

Curls,

I'm guessing that by "Range Rover" you mean me?

Thanks for the invite. Perhaps I can take you up on that shooting session some day.

I have to laugh because I may very well be one of those "professionals"; writers, in whom you put so much stock. I've written a "lie" or two over the years.

Machine shop? Hmmm, lemmesee: These days, I am (by day) Corporte Safety Director for a small, but international Silicon Valley machining corporation that does piece-work for the computer industry. They take any erosion measurments down to a millionth of an inch or handle any custom machining I may be interested in. Does that count?

The bottom line is: Yes, Curls, you are way too **** about this for 99.9999999% (about 1 in a million) of us. Still, I'm certain your guns are affected adversly, because you Know Your Stuff.

For the other 999,999 of us average everyday Joes - it DON'T MEAN SPIT. Shoot your 38s, and clean the gun. Even +P+ 38 Specials (and BTW, there is NO SAAMI spec for "+P+". It's a marketing label that varies from manufacturer to manufacturer) are not hot enough to flame cut the steel in a decent quality revolver.

Living close to Dillon? Cool, but I gotta tellya, Pard: in ~35 years of using Dillon products I can recollect 4 problems. In every instance a phone call resulted in instant action. It was almost as if they made "House Calls". I'd much rather live close to Ruger or S&W so I wouldn't have to pay overnight shipping for warranty work.............

So, Curls. old Pard, I'm afraid we gotta disagree - a bunch. I hold no animosity for you and I respect your right to have an opinion different from mine. If we ever do get together, I'd be proud to stand ya to a cold beverage of your choice.

 

OL

Dillion has a great product. I was using his stuff years before I took the job in the building next to his. I've met and talked to Mike several times and he is a heck of a nice guy. The best thing about working next to his building is a lot of the photography for the Blue Press is done outside in a vacant lot where casual onlookers can observe (sweet). I don't know where he gets his models but they are nice. His plant is half aircraft hanger and half manufacturing. It's shaped like a horseshoe with hanger doors opening into the center. He started life as an Airline pilot and has a real love for rotary and fixed wing aircraft.

Ruger has a plant just up the road in Prescott Valley about an hour and a half from my house in Phoenix. I am not sure which of their firearms are manufactured there. From what I have been told they mostly build golf clubs there. Weird when you think about it.

By day I am a Manufacturing Operations Manager for a laser company. We produce CO2 lasers and Laser marking equipment. My background is all in Engineering and Chemistry probably why I landed where I did, but it explains my **** nature when it comes to things like this.

If you ever get a chance to measure the erosion in the cylinder (if there is any) I would be interested in the results for academic argument.

 

Curls,
I love it when two well informed guys can take opposite sides of an issue, can present their respective sides of the disagreement without name calling and rancor, and still find sufficient other common ground to maintain mutual respect.

I salute you, Pard.

Glad you have a front row seat to the photo-shoots. No doubt, you've just made a lot of guys green with envy.

 

Ol, you must be a long lost uncle of mine! I would love to cruise your ranch someday, I love the desert and live in the tall hills.

I shoot quite a bit of 38/357 too, never knew of the discussion regarding chamber wear. Mostly though I shoot out of 357 case 158 grn lead swc and about 6 grains of unique, seems like a nice play load. I envy you folks who can hop on the atv and mosey out through your own badlands and shoot BFR's (Big *ing Rocks) any time. I enjoyed reading your discussion as well, nice to see people on the forum behaving beyond puberty.

Cheers,
Shady

 

Shady Rascal,
Pard, I used that 6 gr Unique/158 gr bullet recipe for a lot of years.

When I bought the 1881 Ranch, I'd never ridden an ATV - only dirt bikes many many years ago. The idea of the ranch was a place to go play cowboy, prospect, rockhound, etc and not be bothered by other folks. It's 9 miles to the nearest paved road. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

South of the ranch is nothing but desert for 23 miles or more, so we have "about" 400 square miles of desert to play in. The "down" side is the desert is just as deadly today as it was 150 years ago. It's foolish to go out there alone and downright suicidal to go unprepared.

For those of you back east there are two - actually three - things that seem to amaze my eastern friends and family when they visit:

1) The land is free and open (and ecologically vulnerable) and there are no rangers and no rescue from your lack of preparation - you are on your own.

2) Almost everyone you meet will offer you water

3) Everyone you meet will armed.


I really enjoyed your photo page. It's greatto see the whole family out there having a good time. I have 12 grandkids of my own. Does Darcy go with you?

 

OL you seem like the guy to ask, I love to use firearms. no matter what caliber, I use a pellet gun or a 22 about every day on squirrels to our hunting rifles about 5 times a year to shotguns whenever we have trap shoots at our farm to shooting all caliber pistols up at hunting camp. I am in no way an expert on guns like you but i do know a little. I have a question to ask you. didnt they call it the 38 special becuase they could use it in the 357. I am always in constant bets on gun and motor info with my brother and this one came up. thanks in advance maybe this will settle one of our bets. with me winning

 

The 38 special was out many years before the 357 magnum. They called it the 38 special because back in the day they used a 38 caliber cylinder to accomodate the cartridge case although the barrel was .357". Something about the old style cap and ball where the cylinder would be 38 and the barrel would be 38, with metallic case being larger than the bullet inside of it. Please excuse my muddy explanation I just came out of surgery and still under the influence of anasthesia.

Yes Ol, Darcy goes everywhere with us, we give her a run through the dunes and it tuckers the Brittany wildness right out of her! She's a great bird dog too.

 

The 38 Special was introduced by Smith & Wesson in 1901. It was designed for the "relatively new" smokeless powder and called "Special" to differentiate it from the late 19th cartridge, the 38 S&W.

Lots of folks get these confused: a 38 Smith and Wesson and a 38 Special are two entirely different cartridges.

The 38 Special was a hot round for it's day and for a short while was the official US military cartridge until the advent of the 1911 Colt and it's 45ACP round.

There were many attempts to make the 38 a more powerful cartridge but the most successful was the 357 magnum introduced by Douglas Wesson (of S&W). He presented the very 1st production 357 magnum revolver to J. Edgar Hoover on April 8, 1935.

The ONLY diffference between the 38 Special and the 357 was the case length. The standard 38 Special case was made 1/10th of an inch longer for 2 reasons: 1) to hold more powder and 2) to ensure that the more powerful cartridge could not be chambered in the less powerful revolver.

One last thing: when asked to name the new cartridge, Wesson compared it to champagne. There was a standard sized bottle and then a "king" sized bottles which held more. The larger bottles were called magnums. Since, except for case length, the new cartridge was identical in every way to its parent case (and it simply held more powder) he called it a "Magnum".

I hope this helps explain a bit.

 

thanks mate