There are basically 4 types but the first 2 are the best. A little history first. Since our motor is a twin and fires at 90* it is hard to find any after market ignition to adapt to the Kawi so some manufacturing is involved because 3 of these ignitions are crank fired and the other uses the pickup on the motor that will be discussed later.

1) Direct ignition by Electromotive Ignitions HPX 4 cylinder type.

This is probably the most expensive it allows for more modification and can be later installed on to a 4 cylinder car if need be. I use a 4 cylinder ignition because the number one and number 3 cylinder fire at 90* from each other and the ignition uses one pickup with a 60 tooth reluctor wheel. The wheel rotates with respect to the crank and is bolted via a machined washer with key way to keep things locked in the right position. The HPX has 30* set in the system but can adapted for more advance if needed ( OH YEAH ). It has initial timeing for start up as much as 30* if needed, max timeing to come on at what ever rpm you wish not like the Kawi where max timeing is on at 5000 rpm. It has a trigger for Nos ( now we are talking Nos is Nice ) it can be set to come on at what ever rpm you wish. It also has a timeing retard for the Nos application so you can adjust the amount of retard at that preset rpm setting for the switch. The switch can also operate any function that will operate on 5 Volts, so you install an rpm light, some sort of solenoid or what ever your heart desires. It also has an adjustable rpm limiter up to 15,000 rpm total destruction is reported to be near 12,000 rpm by Kawi engineers at least that is what they say LOL. I have had my 650 up to 10,500 with no adverse affects so far and the V force that was kindly donated for testing I had it up to 10,000 rpm on pavement but it went a little squirrely on me so I dropped it down. I have been running this ignition for the past month on and off to test different modds to see how they work on stock and modded configurations. The best thing is no rev limiter and the quad runs cooler it will idle for 10 minutes before the fan comes on. On the trail the fan never comes on or if it does it is because I have been traveling at a high rate for a extended period the extra advance in timeing helps dramatically in this respect.

2) Boyer Bransden Ignition from England.

This ignition was developed for twin motor cycles such as BSA, Norton, BMW Flat Twins, Enfield Bullet, most importantly the Ducati race proven motor design. The Ducati fires identical to the Kawi 650, P700, V700, 2 separate single ignitions are to be installed one reluctor wheel with 2 pickups to operate 2 ignitions one for the front cylinder and of course the second to fire the second cylinder. With this system the reluctor will have to be machined and installed just like the HPX with the pick ups set at 90* from each other so the pick ups have to be set perfectly at their perspective spots to achieve perfect fireing a tenth of a degree is critical. The kit comes with everything except the reluctor wheel which has to be fabricated. With this system there is no adjustment for timeing it is set by the control box although full timeing comes on at 2500 rpm with slight retard at 8500 almost 8 degrees this is standard with 99% of all ignition set ups. The great thing about this ignition there is little power needed to operate it, it has its own coils just like the HPX there is very little power loss. Another thing is it does not have any rpm limiter so you can go to the moon if you wish. Boyer believes that valve float will always happen before the motor detonates.

3) Ducati Race Team Ignition From Sweden.
I was given this ignition from the race team in Sweden when I was there 2 weeks ago so I will play with this one before I let everybody know how it works, sorry but from what I was shown from the engineers it will perform with the best systems out there maybe better. I like the better part plus they designed this ignition with respect to my modds I intend to install on my machine this winter !!!!!!!!

4) Ford Dual Spark Ignition.
Although the toughest to install it was the least expensive to buy most parts were from the local junk yard LOL. The biggest problem is the ignition has full timeing from start up and can not be adjusted what so ever so you will have full 28* from start up. On take off it rattles until you hit 2200 then will boogy rather well but initial start and take off are hard on the motor. I shouldn't even put this on the forum because you will definitely need to know how to hook it up to make it work. I tried this system as I wanted to see how the motor would work on top end or mostly above 5000 rpm as our cdi drops timeing just when the quad is becoming exciting. I was running this ignition early this spring with my Super Charger when I spun a mane bearing knocking me out of the finals but what a thrill when I crossed 150 feet of mudd in under 9 seconds.

A final note, a crank fired ignition is the most accurate fireing system there is as opposed to cam fired units. There is no back lash, no gears, no chains, nothing to nock off of alignment as rpms increase. I have sought out these systems and it has been a long road but the end result is very satisfying.

When DG gets their unlimiter working it will add to the timeing all ready installed on the quad by what I think is a SPC Mapper that fits in line between your pick up and ignition. It gives the ability to phase advance/retard in 250 rpm increments + 20* and - 20* from its reference point. The only bad thing is it will not be able to move the setting of the rev limiter, that will have to be done by breaking into the cdi and we know what that would involve.

Good luck with these prospects I think you will have a great deal of fun if you decide to go with one of these systems. Later on down the road aftermarket companys will get off their rumps untill that time I will be looking in my rear view mirror for you LOL. Mostly, have fun take care, I hope to see you on the trails no matter what you ride just as long as you ride!!!!!!!

 

Sounds a tad hard for me. I might be better off waiting for the unlimiter, thats if it will work on the V-Force.

 

ineresting post... I couldn't help myself the other day & stopped into the BMW motocycle shop...been wanting that new duel sport bike... it was fuel injected... got me dreaming of using that or a similar ignition, & a set of fuel injectors off of a donor Cannondale or an EFI snowmobile ??? I'm having a hard time with having to rent, every time we go to the mountains ( my trips are too short to rejet twice, there & back )... EFI seems like the way to go...WAM

 

Bertram,
This is not an easy install anything worth the effort is never easy!!

Newbeatle,
I intend on installing EFI by spring of next year one that is programable along with programable ignition the quad will be unstopable. I found a new injector that has gas along with a Nos hook up on the side of the injector so Nos can be injected with the fuel enriching circuit. It was developed for Corvetts with plastic intakes it was impossible to install Nos injectors on a plastic intake. Now with this new system the injector has 2 applications much better for modding with one injector to handle fuel and Nos delivery should be fun.

 

Haltech

 

DesertSportsman,
Have you tried the Haltech system the reason I did not go this way was mostly of exspense plus it has a lite sensitive pick up that could get dirty this would hamper the ignition. If you use it what advantages have you noticed, if the pick up is of a different type have you installed it. I am not sure but I don't think there is dealer in the US any more for them which is to bad. I have contacted them but they do not sell just an ignition any more just their E6K unit that has EFI plus ignition all in one. The brain for the system is rather large and hard to keep from getting wet unless it is sealed in a box of some sort. Just few thoughts for not investing in the unit if you know of someone who has it on I would like to talk with them or better yet post the results.

 

Alltoys,
I for one, appreciate all the effort you have spent and the time you have taken to let all of us know what the possibilities are for the KFX700. Thanks for your experimentation and insight!!!!!
Very interseting information on ingition applications but if you could you clarify a few things for us weekend warriors that dont have all your mechical knowhow and acces to a machine shop in our back yards.

1. What can I expect by adding a new ignition in regards to HP and RPM increase?
2. What do each of these units cost?
3. Do they come in an all inclusive kit or do you have find or manufacture parts?
4. Is this something a typical backyard mechanic should tackle?
5. Approximately how many hours would it take a skilled Mechanic to install these units?
6. Do these units work on stock machines?
7. If not, what minimum modifications are required before installation?
8. Would they negitively impact the longivity of the motor or drivetrain?
9. Would it negate the estended warranty that Kawi offers?
10. Are different ignitions better for different appications (racing, trail riding, mud, Sand!!).
11. Which one is the closest to a "plug and play" application with minimal maintainence?

For my personal appliction I would want something that allow my to compete with modified Raptors and the new Yamaha 450 racing up Sand Moutain in Central Utah. I dont however, want a machine that I have to tinker with every time I go out to get it running just right..

Thanks again for all you have share with with thus far!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Slc,
These ignitions are easy to install the hardest part is fabing the reluctor wheel to the crank the rest is plug and play.

1) Hp gains are dramatic because you can have total timeing come on at 2500 rpm with no rev limiter just like a drag bike with no limits. For our machine it will give more than opening up your intake and installing a good muffler. Our motor is stifled above 5000 rpm just imagine having as much power at 2700 rpm as you would at 5000 rpm plus at 2500 you will have more timeing advance up to 32* which is stump pulling power. Kawi determines optimum performance range at 32* as of now we can hope for best pulling rpm around 6200 - 6500 rpm I have found with either of these ignitions excellent power is around 2700 and it gets better as it climbs. Lets go a little further up to 9500 rpm since there is no timeing retard the motor pulls very hard it still has throttle left over. I had my machine up to 10,500 where it is very exciting. Over all you can add another 20 brake hp at 10,000 rpm.
2) The HPX I think is around 700 US plus you will have to fab a crank wheel, install wires and a heavy pull switch to turn on the ignition. The Boyer Bransden system was 350 US again it needs a crank wheel fabbed but it has wires and the cdi is completely enclosed. The only let down it is not programmable where the HPX is. The one from Ducati is around 5000 US I would think probably more as it was developed with me in mind as it is totally programmable for timeing, Nos, fuel injection, rpm programmed timeing retard, 7 mapp switches plus some other stuff. The Ford one you will really have to now your stuff but the price is the best around 100 US it took me 2 weeks of stubborn dogged determination to make it work. Really it is not worth the trouble and headache I tried it because I was waiting for my ignitions to arrive from the US and England.
3)HPX comes with ignition then there are other parts added onto the system to make it work for you as a 60, 3 inch wheel, and chisel point pickup then you must fab a reluctor wheel. Boyer comes with everything you need except the reluctor wheel which you have to fab. Ducati comes with everything but it should LOL. Ford you have to fab EVERYTHING LOL not recommended.
4)NO.
5)If everything is in front of you mostly 2 hours.
6)This is the neet part. HPX will work on single cylinder or your 4 cylinder at home mostly you could put it on your lawn mower, you could have the best running lawn mower on the block LOL. Boyer system is actually a single cylinder system times 2 for our Kawi so the same as the HPX it will work on a one lunger or 2 cylinder motor as well. Ducati will work on 1-4 cylinder system it will also work on my 4 cylinder car as well.
7)The biggest modd is fabbing the washer to hold the wheel on the crank where the pull start would be then mounting the pickup or pickups on the Boyer system as there are 2 pickups.
8)These ignitions would the best thing your motor could have installed besides intake and exhaust modds. Apart from more HP the motor runs cooler because of more timeing advance.
9)Warranty I am not sure about this it might as there is no rev limiter that alone may hamper warranty negotiations LOL. Higher rev limits are great for modding it wasn't that long ago that motor cycles had no limiters the only thing slowing the bike down was valve lap. I have talked with many motor gurus over the years the only thing that can damage an engine is prolonged high rpms because of lack of lubrication, worn engine parts contributing out of time valves and so on. Most of these motors had and do have cam fired ignitions once the motor wears it creates misaligned timeing because of cam chain wear along with cam backlash. Crank timeing is the best way to go there is no absolutely no chance of the timeing fluctuating as parts wear out or higher rpms are reached.
10)Better ignitions will fit all gambits you can't loose the benefits will work for all applications from pulling stumps or flying off the top of a sand dune, or especially for MUDD BOGS.
11)That is the beauty of these ignitions once they are installed you leave them alone never to be touched again unless you wish to. HPX, and Ducati is more adjustable for fine tweaking for the general person they will never use 80% of it. The Boyer is the better system for the modest racer to weekend stump puller there is no adjusting just install and play. It has full timeing on at 2500 rpm just like the others in a race application so it will work tinkering around the yard as well and there is no rev limiter with Boyer. Their philosophy is rev limit is controlled by valve float.

I hope this helps I believe they are worth the extra time/money involved to install it sure made me realize the potential of these Kawi's.

 

damn dood...thats sweet.!!!

 

Alltoys,
Once again, I am amazed at your itimate knowledge of how these different systems work on the v700. I am a little embarased about not completely understanding some of the terminology you use to describe the installation of these systems. However, I am probably not alone out there when it comes to comprehending the technical aspects of unleashing the awesom power of the Vforce. If you could indulge me (and others I presume) in answering a few more questions I would be forever in your debt.
The Boyer Bransden system (from you description) sounds like what I am looking for. With that in mind please advise me on the following.

1. Where do you get one?
2. Are the instructions sufficient to take this system to my local shop and have them install it?
3. Have you or anyone you know of put together a step by step description of how to intall the Boyer system on a V Force (preferably with pictures).

4. In answer #2 above you refer to "crank wheel fabbing". Do you have pictures of what your talking about.

5. In answer #3 above you refer to "reluctor wheel". What is it and do you have pictures?
6. In answer #7 above you refer to "crank shaft washer". Again do you have pictures?
7. Do you or anyone you know sell these parts you refer to as "Fabbing".
8. How far do you have to tear down the motor to install the components.
8. Do you recommend any other modification (electrical or mechanical) be added when installing this system? ( I have only added HMF pipes and jetting thus far).

Please forgive my ignorance regading these sytems but, when I get one I would like to be able to talk intelligently to the mechanics who will install it. Thanks again for all your research and willingness to share!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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