Here Here, I agree.
On the trail, rider skills are a huge part of it also. You can have the quicker machine and loose because you are not experienced or just plain CHICKEN.
One can spend loads of cash and do hours of garage work just for 1/2 a second and 2 mph in 300 feet in a drag race.
I spent cash on the CDI for the improvements only because I may get a cooler and crisper running unit with a 5 minute install. To me, the hours spent with clutch, intake and exhaust work for a miniscule improvement just isn't worth my time for the way I ride.
I am not knocking those who do. I read with earnest every post on performance improvements. I then evaluate how important it is to me as to how it will effect my riding application.
I'm glad there are those who go into the machines to see what is possible. I tweak My Truck everything I own.
On the trail, when it applies, (a non family touring ride) I love to see if I can pass you, and keep from getting passed.

 

Metallikev,
I couldn't agree more. I started this thread, and I am in the process of choosing a new ATV that will be used in the most extreme hard core terrain I can find to ride it in. I will use the ATV for building mountain goat style ATV trails in the Rocky Mountains, and for rock crawling. Right now I am considering: keeping my '04 Grizzly (which has worked great); an '05 Arctic Cat 650; an '05 Brute Force 750; and believe it or not, an '05 Kodiak 450 (which now has IRS). I plan to fully check out each of these machines, but the capability to conquer extreme terrain, and their overall handling, are what I think are going to be most important (hence my question about the handling of a Brute Force). Overall power will be less important, and the ability of the Brute Force to pull wheelies is NOT a selling point for my intended use. I hate to say it, but I am leaning toward the Kodiak 450 right now. I think its smaller size will allow it to be muscled around easier, and allow it to get into, and through, more technically demanding terrain better than the big bore ATVs. We don't have mud here in the desert, so the ability to turn big mud tires doesn't come into play.

therock,
Nice truck. It is the same color as an '05 GMC Sierra 3500 crew cab dually 4x4 that I just ordered.

 

unless things have changed the new articat 650 has the best ground clearance of all..not sure of the specs on the BF

 

And it has the best floorboard design as well (STEEL). Dragging plastic floorboards over rocks doesn't work for very long. Both floorboards on my Grizzly have been broken long ago, and now at least they just get distorted and pushed up and out of the way when I get hung up badly. The only problem with that is that it can be hard to get the plastic back into its original shape after you really grind it over the rocks.

 

OuterLimit, Thanks! Get yourself some kind of mud flaps because the paint scratches white. There is some new tough as H#ll plactic tape that works great too.

Also, I had a Kodiak but not an 05. It is the roughest riding machine for long trips I ever rode. I hope it's better now. For hauling gear where you want to go I believe you need more power. The Rincon is the plushest but not suited to what your gonna do.

I have ridden the new 650 ArticCat. Man that thing is a real tough truck like unit that rides nice. Great ground clearance too. You owe it to yourself to ride one before you buy. Ride them all.

 

We had the old solid rear axle style Kodiak 450 as well, and it did ride like a lumber truck. But with its small size I could take that ATV into some crazy terrain that other ATVers would never follow me through. It was a lot easier to man handle in the real technical stuff than a full size ATV, and it was easier to roll off of you if you laid it over trying something too hard [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]. And it was easier to hold on a hillside when you were the first person trying a hillclimb, only to find out half way up the hill that you couldn't make it. My Grizzly will make more hillclimbs than the Kodiak could, but when you finally get to one that you can't make you are in deep **** [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]. If you are full throttling a Grizzly up a mountain, and can't make it, you better just plan on dying, LOL. There have been lots of times I have used my winch on the Grizzly, just because of that reason. Better safe tha sorry, because a Grizzly can be a lot to handle when things go wrong in a big way.

With the new Kodiak 450 having IRS I thought it would be perfect for what I want to do with it. Then again, it is way down on power compared to the big bores. Too bad someone doesn't make a 600cc ATV in a chassis the size of the Kodiak.

And I have ridden an Arctic Cat 650. They are awesome ATVs, probably better than my Grizzly for what I want to do. To bad they are even bigger and heavier.

[edit] One interesting thing I have discovered on the Grizzly is that the odometer does not accumlate any mileage if you are going less than 3 mph (which is usually the case with rock crawling). The speedometer stays at 0 until you hit 3 mph, then it reads 3mph. So you can rock crawl all day long at less than 3 mph and end up accumulating 0 miles in a days ride. Betcha there aren't too many Grizzly owners that know that, LOL.

 

I finally got to see (and ride) a Brute Force today. They actually look good in person, although the humps on the fenders still look stupid. The thing that struck me the most about it was its size. This is one BIG ATV! The dealer I went to sells Yamaha and Kawasaki, so I was able to park a brand new Grizzly right beside a brand new Brute Force. The Brute Force is taller, longer, and a bit wider. The rack height and seat height are a good three inches higher than a Grizzly. That, combined with big, wide, all plastic floorboards made me change my mind on the Brute Force. For the very tight, technical, slow, and difficult riding I like to do with a 4x4 ATV it looked like a mid-sized (but full featured) ATV would work better. I came away with the Kodiak 450, with IRS and a front locker.

 

And as big as the BF is, the new KQ is even wider. CRAZY.

 

Outerlimit,how do you like your 450 kokiak with the irs?I'll bet it is sweeeeet!

 

<u>Very</u> nimble and good handling. Suspension is just as good as a Grizzly. Doesn't seem quite as tippy as a Grizzly, probably just because it is smaller and has a 3" lower seat height (6" lower seat height than the Brute Force). Feels lighter, even though it is only 30 lbs or so lighter than the Grizz. Power is good, but not as good as my Grizzly was, and not even close to the Brute Force (I wheelied the Brute Force across the parking area at the dealer, on the test ride [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]). The Kodiak 450 is neat though, I really think it will work better for super technical terrain.