desertfox, i'll PM ya so we don't loose the thread. better yet, we can go to the "where to ride" section of this board. i think there are a couple other Bozeman guys here that might want included. i'll go start a thread there and we can hatch a plan.

monty

 

Im quoting from the top tech at Good Year in Minneapolis, I personally dont know alot about oil. I believed him because they dont offer ams oil, they did offer mobile one, i asked about the synthetic quality, and he was honest. I believed him because he didnt try to sell me mobile one. He said they used clever wording, and are not pure synthetic as is ams oil.

 

V2rider,

There is so much misinformation out there pertaining to syn vs dino it is mind staggering. I have a degree in Chemistry and it took me awhile to sort fact from fiction. This is mostly caused by oil company marketing propaganda and urban legends that get accepted as fact when they are a little more then smoke and mirrors. The fact is that if you change your oil on a regular maintenance schedule you can run almost anything you want and not suffer any ill effects. If you are in extreme heat, cold, racing or stretching out oil changes a high quality syn oil is going to help your engine out. Amsoil is definitely one of the best you can buy. Is it worth the money only you can answer that.

 

VERY well said curls.

 

i use kawasakis brand....KAWACHEN...really does good...

 

Curls----No offense, but I didn't get any help from you when you said Amsoil or any other full synthetic was perfectly ok for break-in oil. Saying that, you just may have contributed to the confusion out here. The two questions I have for you have to do with 'slickness' and 'specific heat'----not trying to pin you down, just to get your chemist's opinion.

1) There is an often referred-to website, mototune I believe it's called, that says there is only about a 20 hour window (the first 20 hours engine run-time) for break-in, then oil blows by any defective seal around the piston rings, and the rings will never completely seat no matter how many hours are put on after that window of time. He shows lots of pictures to prove it. That said, do you still think synthetic, which is 'slicker' than petro oil, is as good a break-in oil as petro oil?

2) I believe your statement that just about any oil will work if it meets the api service requirements and is changed as often as it should be. That would lead anybody who is conscientious about their maintenance to say 'I have used oil xyz for 20 years, and no problems, therefore my oil beats your oil'. I personally only use Amsoil because it carries more heat with it out to the oil cooler or radiator, and my hard working little v-twin runs cooler. Do you agree with that? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

 

This is topic can really fill volumes of books. I will try to answer the two questions as best I can, but I don't have all the information at hand to give you an absolute answer.

1) I am familiar with the web page and by examining his data it seems a reasonable assumption that his break in method is sound. The oil used in this process does not matter. I have never seen any data that proves synthetic oils lower the coefficient of friction in your engine to a measurable degree. If this were the case you would see your gas mileage go up when changing from a dino to a syn oil. With gas prices these days I unfortunately have never seen this demonstrated.
Many of the most expensive and exotic cars produced never have dino oils touch their crank case. They are built and shipped from the factory using synthetic oils. The seating of the rings still occurs just as it would with other oils.

In a nut shell the magic of a synthetic oil is, not that it is a "slicker" oil. The magic is that synthetic oils are a more stable oil of a uniform chemical composition which allows them to buffer acids, absorb water, flow better in cold and resist thermal decomposition.

2) I would need to know the chemical "specific heat" of your Amsoil to see if your observation is accurate. What I am going to guess is the basis of your observation is that your good oil is not carrying more "thermal energy" it's that your oil is preventing the friction which causes heat in your engine in the first place. I know it almost sounds like a contradiction of the not "slicker" statement. The synthetic oils have a higher viscosity film strength, they also out perform dino oils in sheer strength which leads to a higher film property retention. All of this allows less metal to metal interaction, but does not lower the coefficient of friction.

In my opinion, when oil companies make claims that their synthetic oils increase mileage they cheat. They use a less viscose synthetic oil. The reduction in internal engine component drag increases milage.

For this reason its really important that people match viscosity to ambient temperature requirements. Oils with a higher viscosity are better at clinging to metal parts which helps in the lubrication process. Racing oils are all at least 50 weight oils for maximum protection. The down side is they actually reduce total horsepower by increasing internal engine drag. I live in Phoenix and ride when it's 115 degrees I want a thick sticky oil with really good film properties, when I ride in the mountains I don't need a 50 weight oil, any 10-40 or 15-40 is good. I stay away from 0-40, 0-30 etc because the 0 is your base oil viscosity. When the long polymers undergo mechanical shearing your viscosity will end up down at your base oil over time. 0-30 oil in a wet clutch dirt bike will be 0-15 in a few hundred miles. That's is not a lot of protection. Our Utes quads dont tear apart the polymers as quickly, but it does happen.

 

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I always had a little nagging doubt about the 'zero' component of 0W-40 oil, and was basically taking Amsoil's word on it for atv engines.

Think I'll use up my 0W-40 supply and go back to Amsoil 10W-40 for use in our cold/hot conditions around here.