Deer season around the corner!!
#11
09-04-2002, 07:08 PM
Wow--start talking about "baiting", and you will get us Texans riled up. Feeders and box blinds are a way of life down here.
Feeders are used to draw deer into, but the more mature bucks are wiley, and usually won't come into feeders after shedding the velvet. Now, when the rut comes, they will chase does into feeders, thus giving hunters and opportunity.
However, I will say, rattling is a much better method of bringing in the big ones. Mature dominant bucks are very territorial, and don't take kindly to intruders.
Click on my "pics" on my signature...I don't have any of my whitetail pics up there, but a couple of exotics are. I will add more when I get my camera fixed.
Chucky
Feeders are used to draw deer into, but the more mature bucks are wiley, and usually won't come into feeders after shedding the velvet. Now, when the rut comes, they will chase does into feeders, thus giving hunters and opportunity.
However, I will say, rattling is a much better method of bringing in the big ones. Mature dominant bucks are very territorial, and don't take kindly to intruders.
Click on my "pics" on my signature...I don't have any of my whitetail pics up there, but a couple of exotics are. I will add more when I get my camera fixed.
Chucky
#13
09-04-2002, 10:38 PM
A 7mm-08 is a 7mm necked down to a .308. Just another variation of the .30 caliber. A most excellent round. Alot of bench shooters use it for target shooting because it is VERY VERY flat shooting. Recoil is reasonably light, and is great for smaller statured folks, teens, and women. Nice energy for medium game. Not uncommon to get 1/2" MOA groups out of factory rifles at 100 yards.
Chucky
Chucky
#14
09-04-2002, 10:46 PM
Oh, ok! I gotcha! I know a .308 is an awesomely flat shooting round, too. To be honest I wasn't quite sure what the .08 was indicating after the 7mm.
Tell me something, if you would. What do you think between a .308 and .270. I'm wanting a hi power, but really not sure what caliber. I've even considered a 6mm. I would be hunting deer mostly, maybe Elk being the largest I would hunt, Black bear is a possibilty, too. Although I have never hunted them at this point, but in the future certainly a possibitly . What do you think? Maybe have to have a diff. rifle for deer and Elk? What do you think maybe the best all around caliber for what I would be doing?
Tell me something, if you would. What do you think between a .308 and .270. I'm wanting a hi power, but really not sure what caliber. I've even considered a 6mm. I would be hunting deer mostly, maybe Elk being the largest I would hunt, Black bear is a possibilty, too. Although I have never hunted them at this point, but in the future certainly a possibitly . What do you think? Maybe have to have a diff. rifle for deer and Elk? What do you think maybe the best all around caliber for what I would be doing?
#15
09-05-2002, 05:11 AM
I need to make a correction. The 7MM-08 is a .308 necked down to a 7mm. As far as chosing between a .308 or .270, I would take either for any of the game you listed. I have heard more than once that the .308 is about as ballisticly perfect as you can get in a rifle. But there have been many new rounds that have come recently such as the short action mags that have the same ballistics as their bigger brothers, but with less recoil.
To give some of you an idea what a Lone Eagle is who haven't seen one, it is a Hi-Power pistol with a barrell that measures 15" (including muzzle brake). It was possible to get one in a .300 Winchester Mag. They have interchangable barrells like the Thompson Contender/Encore hand cannons.
To give some of you an idea what a Lone Eagle is who haven't seen one, it is a Hi-Power pistol with a barrell that measures 15" (including muzzle brake). It was possible to get one in a .300 Winchester Mag. They have interchangable barrells like the Thompson Contender/Encore hand cannons.
#16
09-05-2002, 10:28 AM
When I shot rifles the .308 was my favorite. Sense then the .270 has been most of the hunters choice down here. With all the new rounds such as ballistic tips the .270 has realy impressed me.
If you are in long range areas or in thicker type wooded ranges will be the deciding factor. The .308 heavier rounds could with stand shots through brush better, or would all the selections of rounds these days cancel that out, hmmmm, good question.
I bought my son a .243 last year to replace his 20 gauge, now thats one fast rifle.
In my opinion I would go for the .270, and I realy hated this rifle for years. How time makes your eyes open.
If you are in long range areas or in thicker type wooded ranges will be the deciding factor. The .308 heavier rounds could with stand shots through brush better, or would all the selections of rounds these days cancel that out, hmmmm, good question.
I bought my son a .243 last year to replace his 20 gauge, now thats one fast rifle.
In my opinion I would go for the .270, and I realy hated this rifle for years. How time makes your eyes open.
#17
09-05-2002, 11:08 AM
Get which ever you like, you won't go wrong with either. Just remember that shot placement is much more important than sheer power.
I am a big guy, but am so glad that I went from a 300 Weatherby to a 270 Win. A buddy showed me why I couldn't hit anythign with the 300. We were target practicing and he asked to see the rifle. All he did was hand it back with an empty chamber, but told me it was ready to fire, just push the safety off. Needless to day, it I moved back 3 inches before it snapped. After I learned to hold still, I hit everything, but that rifle is too punishing just for Whitetail.
I can group my 270 in less than 1 inch@ 100 yds because I don't fear it.
I am a big guy, but am so glad that I went from a 300 Weatherby to a 270 Win. A buddy showed me why I couldn't hit anythign with the 300. We were target practicing and he asked to see the rifle. All he did was hand it back with an empty chamber, but told me it was ready to fire, just push the safety off. Needless to day, it I moved back 3 inches before it snapped. After I learned to hold still, I hit everything, but that rifle is too punishing just for Whitetail.
I can group my 270 in less than 1 inch@ 100 yds because I don't fear it.
#18
09-05-2002, 11:22 AM
My dad and I both hunt in northern maine with .308's.
He uses an absolutely fantastic Winchester .308 (arguably the best .308 ever made). Its the Winchester Model 88. They stopped making that model in the 50's because the mechanism (the mechanics of the lever action) were too expensive to mass produce. The gun is light, shoulders very quickly, easily and comfortably, and the action to the lever is baby smooth with a quick/short throw to eject and reload.
I use a Savage Model 99C in .308 caliber. I love it, its a little on the heavy side but has a short shoulder throw. The lever action doesn't jack shells in and out like the Model 88, but once you get used to it it's not bad. This gun is dead nuts, and I mean NUTS at 150 yards. I wouldn' hunt with anything other than a .308 where we hunt in Maine.
As far as brush busting and knockdown power, it has it all. I think what is so versatile about it is that it is rather compact and light for a larger caliber, it is very accurate and fast loading, and has all the knockdown power needed to take down a deer, or bear, elk or moose. The recoil impact is somewhere around 17 lbs/ft. It's rival comparison is the .30-06, but with that you get about a 2-4 lbs heavier gun and a recoil of 20 lbs more than the .308. It is a popular gun and works well, but is sometimes overkill in the thickets that we hunt in. It's still a nice firearm, I'm not knocking the .30-06 at all, just personal preference.
He uses an absolutely fantastic Winchester .308 (arguably the best .308 ever made). Its the Winchester Model 88. They stopped making that model in the 50's because the mechanism (the mechanics of the lever action) were too expensive to mass produce. The gun is light, shoulders very quickly, easily and comfortably, and the action to the lever is baby smooth with a quick/short throw to eject and reload.
I use a Savage Model 99C in .308 caliber. I love it, its a little on the heavy side but has a short shoulder throw. The lever action doesn't jack shells in and out like the Model 88, but once you get used to it it's not bad. This gun is dead nuts, and I mean NUTS at 150 yards. I wouldn' hunt with anything other than a .308 where we hunt in Maine.
As far as brush busting and knockdown power, it has it all. I think what is so versatile about it is that it is rather compact and light for a larger caliber, it is very accurate and fast loading, and has all the knockdown power needed to take down a deer, or bear, elk or moose. The recoil impact is somewhere around 17 lbs/ft. It's rival comparison is the .30-06, but with that you get about a 2-4 lbs heavier gun and a recoil of 20 lbs more than the .308. It is a popular gun and works well, but is sometimes overkill in the thickets that we hunt in. It's still a nice firearm, I'm not knocking the .30-06 at all, just personal preference.
#19
09-05-2002, 11:38 AM
I do like the .30-06, too. I don't mind the recoil of it either. My father-in-law has one. It's a Remington 700. However, I've heard repeatedly that that .308 or .270 is more accurate and much flatter shooters than the .30-06. My father-in-law recently got a Remington .270 auto-loader. Not sure of the model #. Super nice gun. What do you guys think of the auto-loaders? I know you may lose a little accuracy, but is it really enough to stay away from auto-loaders?
#20
09-05-2002, 12:16 PM
A couple of comments here on guns and on CWD.
First, for a gun that I was using for deer, bear, and maybe elk or moose, a .270 or .308 would not be my first choice. Now, these are good cartridges, and they are fine for deer and small bear, but I they would not be my cartridge of choice for large bear, moose or elk. My minimum for these would be a 30-06, as you can get larger heavier bullets in 30-06. Now, elk and moose have been taken with .270 and .308, but they are a little on the light side for such big, tough game. Of course, shot placement is key with any round, but much more important for large game, as well as the choice of bullet. You want a round that is heavy for the caliber, and is a tough round for penetrating the tough skin and heavy bones of these larger animals. Don't go after them with a 130 grain softpoint, or you might not get the penetration you need. Buy a heavy premimum bullet. I have always liked the idea of putting them down quickly and humainly with a powerful, well placed shot.
Now, for deer, I mostly use my 30-06 pistol, which is a Competitor (similar in design to the Lone Eagle). This pistol with a scope will group 3 inches at 200 meters and I have taken deer between 90 and 140 yards with it. Does a nice job and recoil with the muzzle break is not bad. For elk, I went with the new .300 Winchester Short Magnum. It offers great power in a smaller lighter rifle but does not have much recoil. I have also taken deer with this rifle with lighter bullets and it does a fantastic job. Very flat shooting.
Now, LEP7mm, about CWD, or Chronic Wasting Disease. I am not an expert, but I do a great deal of research and I listen to people I believe are the experts in the field. I am not going to let CWD stop me from hunting. I may be a skeptic, but I believe that is just what the anti-gunners and animal rights advocates what me, you, and everyone else to do!
CWD is a problem, but, unlike the news stories I'm sure you saw in Minnesota (I saw them too) where they indicated that three guys died from CWD and so obviously it must transfer to humans, I believe that was just a bunch of media hype (maybe fueled by anti-gun and animal rights activists, or maybe just to sell papers and ads). As a Police Chief, I work regularly with media, and I have and idea of how they work.
The news story on the 3 guys in Wisconsin didn't have all the information, and no followup was presented with the newest information. Two of these guys died of brain diseases in the early 90's and one in the later 90's, The first two died, one of Crutchfield Jacob Disease (naturally occuring in humans in 1 of 100,000 I believe) which is similar but not the same as CWD, and the other of Picks Disease, which is a different disease. Further investigation showed that they couldn't put all three guys at the same deer feed at the same time. Two of the guys also worked in the beef industry, one making feed out of beef and beef by-products, the other provided beef for the feeds as well. A doctor in the area concluded that he was not worried about CWD but more so that an undetected case of "mad cow" in beef could have been a contributing factor. Many people have died in Britian of "mad cow" but of course, people still eat beef. Also, the prions that they think cause CWD has never been found in the meat of a deer or elk. It is only found in the brain, eyeballs, spinal column, spleen or lymph nodes. I don't know anyone that eats those! Just make sure you bone out your deer, wear gloves, and find a butcher that processes YOUR meat. Also, watch the deer or elk before you harvest it, and make sure it is acting normally. Finally, if you want more real information, (not the junk you get on TV) go to the Colorado Division of Wildlife Web site, or Nebraska Fish and Game Web site and follow the CWD links. You can get all the real information you want. Sorry for the long post, but this stuff really riles me up!
Todd M.
Minnesota
First, for a gun that I was using for deer, bear, and maybe elk or moose, a .270 or .308 would not be my first choice. Now, these are good cartridges, and they are fine for deer and small bear, but I they would not be my cartridge of choice for large bear, moose or elk. My minimum for these would be a 30-06, as you can get larger heavier bullets in 30-06. Now, elk and moose have been taken with .270 and .308, but they are a little on the light side for such big, tough game. Of course, shot placement is key with any round, but much more important for large game, as well as the choice of bullet. You want a round that is heavy for the caliber, and is a tough round for penetrating the tough skin and heavy bones of these larger animals. Don't go after them with a 130 grain softpoint, or you might not get the penetration you need. Buy a heavy premimum bullet. I have always liked the idea of putting them down quickly and humainly with a powerful, well placed shot.
Now, for deer, I mostly use my 30-06 pistol, which is a Competitor (similar in design to the Lone Eagle). This pistol with a scope will group 3 inches at 200 meters and I have taken deer between 90 and 140 yards with it. Does a nice job and recoil with the muzzle break is not bad. For elk, I went with the new .300 Winchester Short Magnum. It offers great power in a smaller lighter rifle but does not have much recoil. I have also taken deer with this rifle with lighter bullets and it does a fantastic job. Very flat shooting.
Now, LEP7mm, about CWD, or Chronic Wasting Disease. I am not an expert, but I do a great deal of research and I listen to people I believe are the experts in the field. I am not going to let CWD stop me from hunting. I may be a skeptic, but I believe that is just what the anti-gunners and animal rights advocates what me, you, and everyone else to do!
CWD is a problem, but, unlike the news stories I'm sure you saw in Minnesota (I saw them too) where they indicated that three guys died from CWD and so obviously it must transfer to humans, I believe that was just a bunch of media hype (maybe fueled by anti-gun and animal rights activists, or maybe just to sell papers and ads). As a Police Chief, I work regularly with media, and I have and idea of how they work.
The news story on the 3 guys in Wisconsin didn't have all the information, and no followup was presented with the newest information. Two of these guys died of brain diseases in the early 90's and one in the later 90's, The first two died, one of Crutchfield Jacob Disease (naturally occuring in humans in 1 of 100,000 I believe) which is similar but not the same as CWD, and the other of Picks Disease, which is a different disease. Further investigation showed that they couldn't put all three guys at the same deer feed at the same time. Two of the guys also worked in the beef industry, one making feed out of beef and beef by-products, the other provided beef for the feeds as well. A doctor in the area concluded that he was not worried about CWD but more so that an undetected case of "mad cow" in beef could have been a contributing factor. Many people have died in Britian of "mad cow" but of course, people still eat beef. Also, the prions that they think cause CWD has never been found in the meat of a deer or elk. It is only found in the brain, eyeballs, spinal column, spleen or lymph nodes. I don't know anyone that eats those! Just make sure you bone out your deer, wear gloves, and find a butcher that processes YOUR meat. Also, watch the deer or elk before you harvest it, and make sure it is acting normally. Finally, if you want more real information, (not the junk you get on TV) go to the Colorado Division of Wildlife Web site, or Nebraska Fish and Game Web site and follow the CWD links. You can get all the real information you want. Sorry for the long post, but this stuff really riles me up!
Todd M.
Minnesota