The HMF is the other pipe I'm considering. I will get to hear one this weekend. Loudness is not an issue most places here in Iowa, I like 'em loud! There is a guy on zee fourhundred sentral who works for a atv shop and told me he would sell me the Muzzy for $185.00 with free shipping. But, i really am liking the HMF more every minute! I can buy the HMF for $218.45 so still not a bad price. Thanks for the info.