Well I'm 67kms short of 15 and my compression is down to 30 I've been going through oil and now it will not start.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img] I'm thinking time to look at the engine, problems for me are: 1. my service rep has never seen the inside of a v-twin, I don't know if the kawi warrenty is going to cover this, I don't know if 15000 is good on a set of rings that have 760hours on it, (I know it is not bad). Scott is saying go aftermarket rings, I don't know if it's worth it, I don't know how long it will take to get rings etc... So right now I'm on a 450ES and not a happy camper.

 

I think that its one of those better safe than sorry things. If your bike was running well at this point I'd recommend changing rings, at least from my years racing/building jetskis, we definitely changed out rings or pistons and rings more frequently than that, preventative maintenance. Get the engine opened up and assess the damages... You may be lucky and just get away with a hone and new set of rings, but possibly a slight overbore and go to the next size piston/rings... For what its worth, in my personal watercraft experience, the wiseco pistons and similar aftermarket pistons are a bit lighter and offer a slight performance gain, but dont have near the durability and service life of the stock pistons..

Last thing, why wouldn't the kaw warranty cover this?

 

Lightman:
I need durability. So I take it stockers the way to go? I don't expect problems inside it always had lots of oil etc and no funny noises etc... I never heard of doing a ring and piston job as part of preventative maintance, I do a lot of preventative maintance maybe I should be adding this to my list? How often I guess it would be by hours?

That extended warrenty didn't cover my swing arm bushings etc. so my faith in warrenty is going down hill. It's not the same as the warrenty I had 0n my 400 by another dealer which they claimed a ring job at 24000 km mark and even stuff that I said hay that shouldn't be was covered on that. So far with the warrenty I paid for the warrenty, the rear shock, swing arm bearings etc...

 

In personal watercraft(keep in mind they were 2strokes), the yamaha pistons were much stronger and durable than wiseco's etc. I do not know for certain the difference in the vtwin pistons and aftermarket pistons, however I know in general most of the aftermarket companies offer lighter pistons that claim strength and offer added performance...Especially if you have an existing extended warranty, I would put the stock stuff back in.

As for pistons/rings changing for preventative maintenance, you can see that they go bad. Sometimes when they go bad they cause a lot of damage and repair cost, sometimes you get lucky. In any case, I dont have an hour meter, but had an estimated 500-600 hours on my yamaha superjet 701cc (stand-up) jetski, and just recently gave the cylinders a fresh hone, new set of pistons and rings, and rebuilt some ugly and curly inner carburetor parts. This ski had been raced for 2 seasons and then served as my primary recreational riding ski since, tons of friends have ridden it etc, so it has taken a lot of hard use. I'd just rather throw a new set of pistons/rings in than have the whole thing bomb when one lets loose. I'm not sure of the durability differences between quads, 4strokes, etc etc....Not an expert just hoping to help!

 

I have 2 cents for this one. I have no room to talk, since I don't have anywhere near that many KM. But I'll start chewing fat here anyway. Don't compare watercraft to landcraft. Watercraft have very much higher performance requirements and are built and tuned for power. They require much more power to cruise than almost any landcraft. This wears them out quicker. Take a car engine and put it in a boat (with the appropriate cooling mods) and it won't last long at all. ATV engines aren't ever going to get as many miles on average before rebuild as a car, but shouldn't be short lived like a boat motor either.

Here is my guess:

1. A few automotive speed shops have run filtration tests on K&N and it doesn't filter as well as claimed, not during the complete cycle from clean to dirty. More particles get by.

2. The K&N filter for the 02 650 doesn't have a positive seal around the entire perimeter. If you didn't grease the perimeter, you probably were sucking some dust.

I sold my K&N on ebay already. I converted my airbox to a 2003. I have a Twin air now.

Now, I'm not 100% sure you sucked dirt. I just suspect it. I could be wrong, I'm the guy that puts too much filter oil on his air filter and wonders why the idle is so rich.

Some other things that wear rings fast is cold engine revving, and taking off at more than 1/5 throttle (or so) while still cold. If you do it, you are wearing them em out fast. Startup causes a lot of wear, especially in cold climates due to poor oil flow at cold temps. If you weren't using synthetic (and/or using a thick viscosity), you could have gotten a lot more miles out of them rings.

If none of this applies, do you drive full speed all the time? That could contribute to it too.

 

what nyroc said basically correlates to what I said earlier. My watercraft would have been subjected to much harder conditions, let alone the 701 cc's putting out 80hp, compared to whatever the prairie makes. All in all, that points toward something went bad before it should have. I was thinking about the air filter possibility earlier. You could have slowly let a lot of particles thru, raising the SI levels in the oil, and slowly causing more and more engine wear.. What type of oil was used and what intervals was it changed?

Nyroc is right, K&N filters are garbage. Sure they flow the most, but just barely more than foam and paper, and they filter worse. Who cares if you're letting more air in if you're letting more dirt in thats not good! Dyno tests show air filters never really give more than 1-2 hp on cars etc, so go with the best protection is my vote.

 

Jason, since you haven't modded your engine, Kawi should have no excuse to not fix it under warranty. If they open it up and find no wear in the cylinders, you may get away with just rings or rings and pistons. If the cylinders are worn you will need oversized pistons. Can you get it ready for the New Brunswick Jamboree?

 

Nyroc I pile the grease weekly to my seals on the K&N because it is now so loose, I have to get it out, it shrunk over time. I know I did not pull dirt/dust in. I have a long warm up sequence for the winter months with the 650 because if you don't warm it up as you are aware it runs like crap. Also I should point out that I had overheating issuses a long time ago when it was new, but I always shut it off and waited unitil the fan shut off when the temp light came on. then we found the rad cap and the thermostat were faulty from factory. Also when I had those carb issues it would backfire (not a small backfire either), and I know that that didn't help and I complained so much that they replaced the carbs when I said that I wasn't willing to drive it after it backfired one more time. Also I complained when mine sat at the dealer for the a day outside in the winter and they would start and once it was going they were moving it in for the night. Also I switch to motul technosyn (I got 24000 on the 400 with that oil) at 600km mark and I took it easy before that.

 

Remind Kawi of the overheating problems, it could have been a factor in your current problems.

 

Please let us know what you see when you get inside. Look for scratches on the cyls and pist.

Maybe the rings were just soft?

Is there any possibility you didn't break it in hard enough? Is there any possibility you broke it in full throttle, or overheated during breakin?