Max, what size engine did you compare to the Grizzly? And was that engine HP or at the wheels? What about your HP ratings? Are they engine or wheels? If you don't know, you shouldn't be comparing the numbers. The Grizzly number is rear wheels. If you do know, please post it.

 

The Hp #s were at the wheels on the grizz, but the torque #s found at yamaha's site are at the engine.

Max got his #s at the engine.

 

Boner stated:

(The Hp #s were at the wheels on the grizz, but the torque #s found at yamaha's site are at the engine. Max got his #s at the engine.)


Thats correct. The HP/torque figures on B/S and Kohler and Tecumseh for that matter are SAE gross,not SAE net, taken at the crankshaft as opposed to taken at the "wheels" in this case. That certainly does NOT reflect how much is lost when attempting to spin the rather cumbersome drivetrain of a Max.

The fact that the B/S, Kohler engines make more toque is not really an issue. Given their max engine speed is 3600 RPM's, they better make sufficient torque within that range.
The ATV engines on the other hand have a much wider powerband. I'm not a flag waver by any stretch but I do respect the fact that the Japanese have managed to make such decent engines. They have a considerably higher specific output/litre than the Kohler/B-S can ever produce. We're also talking about OHC, DOHC, 4 valves/cylinder, etc.

Before anyone tries to denounce those Japanese engines as fragile or exotic and unable to take the abuse, don't. They've been around for many years and have proven reliability. Ever see a Kohler or B/S win motorcycle races? Didn't think so.


The Kohler/BS make it the old fashioned way, with displacement, a crude OHV design. You can't rev the K/BS engines much past 3600 because they will disintegrate, period.

As far as efficiency is concerned, the Kohler/BS lose, hands down. The Kohler/BS are still primarily designed for static, NOT dynamic loads, like lawnmowers, generators, etc. Give me an engine out of a Japanese ATV or for that matter, the kick-butt Rotax engine any DAY over those other two.

There's no contest.


Joe



[This message has been edited by JWestner (edited 12-21-1999).]

 

Both B&S and Kohler engines produce lots of torque at very low RPMs. The 25hp Kohler (as seen on Kohler's site) produces 40ft lbs of torque at just 2400 RPM. To even come close to that, the Banshee engine has to run at 7,000 RPM! Your retarded remark about Max's drivetrain, very little power is lost when going from the engine to the wheels. Max uses chains unlike many new 4x4s which loose power through the shafts. The thing that really shows the Max's great drivetrain is that an 18hp Max will out pull an 18hp Argo, even though they have the exact same engines!
Take the 25hp Max IV and hook it to the biggest, most powerful quad out there. The Max will win without even trying.

MaxRules.

 

MadMax stated in his usual friendly, thoughtful tone:

((Both B&S and Kohler engines produce lots of torque at very low RPMs. The 25hp Kohler (as seen on Kohler's site) produces 40ft lbs of torque at just 2400 RPM.))

Umm, Max, I believe thats been stated already. As usual, you aren't comprehending what others have written or you choose to ignore it alltogether.

(( To even come close to that, the Banshee engine has to run at 7,000 RPM!))

I didn't know we were talking about a Banshee specifically. I guess I missed that one.

((Your retarded remark about Max's drivetrain, very little power is lost when going from the engine to the wheels. Max uses chains unlike many new 4x4s which loose power through the shafts.))

Ok Max, once again do you think you could do something, ANYTHING to belie the fact you are 16 years old? I doubt it. I combed this site looking for intelligent, well-thought out posts from you and I think I found maybe ONE...you didn't write anything, it was a picture.
I would take shaft drive over chain drive any day of the week for the kind of riding I do. Chains are an easy, cheap way of linking the drivetrain to the engine. You refuse to respect the fact that other people here have different tastes. Don't bother flaming me, I consider the fact that you are A: 16 years old, B: Immature for even a 16 year old. C: I have seen others on this forum who are younger than you, post much more meaningful information.
Fine, you love your Max, go marry it or enshrine it somewhere. Also, you have already definitely established yourself as the forum loudmouth. Some folks who work for a living and attempt to gather useful information from this forum are sick and tired of having the signal to noise ratio lowered because of your inability to exercise decorum.

((The thing that really shows the Max's great drivetrain is that an 18hp Max will out pull an 18hp Argo, even though they have the exact same engines!))

That has nothing to do with chain drive at all. It's weight, gearing and traction pure and simple.

((Take the 25hp Max IV and hook it to the biggest, most powerful quad out there. The Max will win without even trying.))

Thats, ONCE AGAIN, an apples to oranges comparison and you know it.
Try to follow me through a 48 inch wide space, try to follow me on a flat run....can't do it can you? Or is there something else we don't know about the mighty Max? Can it change it's form/size on command? Can it make toast?


((MaxRules.))

Only in your little world.


Joe

[This message has been edited by JWestner (edited 12-21-1999).]

 

Gearing is the main thing that allows for heavy pulling with anything. As stated in my first reply on this thread there will be no arguing on this thread. Any more bs will simply be ingnored.

MaxRules

 

MadMadMadMadMax vehemently opined:

((Gearing is the main thing that allows for heavy pulling with anything. As stated in my first reply on this thread there will be no arguing on this thread. Any more bs will simply be ingnored.))

No dear Max, it is NOT the only thing that applies...but since you know it all about everything, at the tender age of 16, I shall not bother to explain it to you. Tell me Max, what did you get your degree in?
I checked your posts in this thread and failed to see one word about you not arguing over anything. Why do you insist on deceiving us dear old Max?

I will admit I have gotten quite a kick out of you especially. You have this mentality not much different fromthe Captain of the Titanic. The ship could be sinking, but damnit, it's the BEST ship out there!


This is the last post by me on this sordid thread. Since you proved my point by responding in the manner with which I, among many others are accustomed, I win this hands down!


((MaxRules))


NOTHING!


Joe

 

I did not say it was the only thing, I said it was the main thing. Bigger gear is power, smaller gear is speed. So, if you had a gear five feet in diameter compared to a gear one foot in diameter the bigger would pull a lot more but the smaller one could go faster. That is how it is with 6x6s and quads.

By the way, congrats on your victory. Your prize will be delivered on your front porch tomorrow. It is a flamming bag of ****.

MaxRules(over quads)

 

I must say Max is right and allitle funny. Except for the last part.

 

JWESTNER.I for one would like to give you a personal ''THANK YOU'' for your most accurate responses to the max man.You saved me from getting my fingers ''cramped'' on this keyboard.I wanted to respond to his silly posts,but it seems you covered it really well,thanks from Bill and the entire rest of this forum.

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