While reading this topic I became pretty upset at some of the points made, but then realized that they are just opinions.

As a parent I choose to buy my little girl a Raptor 50 at 3 years old, did I make a wrong decision, NO. Why do I think this way is because I don't want my kid sitting in the house all day playing stupid video games or watch T.V. all day long. When she ask me "Daddy let's go ride four-wheelers" it makes me happy as a dad to have her say that.

Maybe they should put age restrictions on everything. I remember as a little kid when i had one of those plastic Big Wheels, me and the friends would go to the top of the biggest hill and race down them usually wiping out and doing some serious damage to ourselves, but our parents weren't rushing to the lawyers the next day to sue the people who made them, they would patch us up and we would do it again.

These smaller ATV are no different then a bicycle, or anything else with wheels on them. As long as the parent has control over the machine there kid is on, that means throttle control, tether cords, kill cords attached to the kid. Remember at least 90% of the people that wrote the laws and had them passed probably never even set foot in the outdoor life and there kids were fed with a silver spoon.

 

Good point BING and ROACH. Very true

 

Good point, but lets remember also that laws are passed by lawyers who want to make money, plain and simple. Hope I don't step on any toes with that remark but it's true. Yes, kids have been hurt on ATV's. However, I was riding 3 wheelers (ATC110) when I was 7 and have moved on through dirt bikes, 4 wheelers, street bikes, etc. Never have I had a serious accident, nor have any of the other kids I rode with. As said above, it's maturity level and attitude. Nothing wrong with buying your kids quads and supervising them, and yes it's alot better than watching the boob tube. When the government steps in and starts regulating things, something is wrong folks! By the way, about the airplane post....I've seen more than 1 under 16 y/o pilot...

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Based on what I read here I get the impression that some have never had a face to face conversation with their state senator or congressional representative. These are the people who introduce bills that become law. Lawyers - yes - mostly - but mostly because it takes a fairly good background in law to articulate new legislation that fits into existing law so that it isn't thrown out, over turned, inconsistent with existing laws, fairly applied, and reasonable. Most of the complaints about "unfair" law comes from bad law that allows judges to bend it into something different from what was intended.

I try to talk with law makers every chance I get and other than the ideological differences between republicans and democrats these people are about as normal and diverse as any others. Some are very well educated - some are not. Some have big money - some don't. I would think most people would want these people as friends or neighbors. There are much worse options I can assure you.

I never pass up the chance to impress the need for more legal riding areas as a solution to the illegal riding and how important ATV riding areas in or near the highly populated metro areas could be. I ask them to look closely at the solutions to the ATV issues and not focus on restrictions or banning. One solution being formulated is how to restrict aggressive tire tread in areas where the ditches and trails are being torn up and erosion is a problem. Rather then banning all ATV's county by county - a "approved" tread design might fix the problem. Again - its just in the initial stages of discussion - but it keeps everyone focused away from the "banned" word - which is progress. The advancement of our states laws to allow youthful riders to ride larger quads came from these kinds of solution discussions. I encourage everyone to participate by letting your support for positive ATV laws be heard.

I worked today to officiate 29 kids age 12-15 obtain their ATV safety certificates so they can ride larger than 90cc quads. One of the parents had a hissy fit over having to have valid registration on the quad they brought for the demonstrated skills riding portion of the testing. Imagine that - being ticked-off over having to have valid registration - how unfair!

I wonder if Abraham Lincoln knew how timeless his statement would be when he said "you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."

 

You have to remember WhoDat, dirt bikes, karts, lawn tractors and certain other ride on toys are not required to have a registration or safety course (at least in my state). Some people view that as unfair. I am one of them.

I have already mentioned once that Texas tried to require dirt bikes to register and the AG ruled against it.



Opinion No: JC-0416 Re: Whether the Texas Department of Public Safety has authority to establish and administer a training and safety program for off-road dirt bikes

Excerpt:
"From a review of these statutes, it becomes clear that most provisions of Texas law define the term "motorcycle" in terms of "motor vehicle," which in turn is defined in terms of highway use. Although it is not inconceivable that an individual might attempt to operate a dirt bike on a public highway, such vehicle is not designed or intended for use in that manner. In determining that a forklift was not a "motor vehicle" for purposes of registration.....If a vehicle is simply every device which conceivably "may be" used to transport persons or property, in the sense of "might" be used, then a vast array of self-propelled devices having no relation to the public highways would be included in these statutes governing the public roads and highways.

S U M M A R Y
The Texas Department of Public Safety is not authorized to establish and administer operator training and safety programs for off-road dirt bikes.

Yours very truly,
JOHN CORNYN
Attorney General of Texas"

 

"You have to remember WhoDat, dirt bikes, karts, lawn tractors and certain other ride on toys are not required to have a registration or safety course (at least in my state). Some people view that as unfair. I am one of them.I"[/quote]

well... we are talking ATV's here and - if it wasn't state law, wasn't part of the pre-certification study guide and part ot the "things to bring with you" list for certification day - then I'd say you have a point.

I don't think this guy was paying attention. - therego the #1 problem

 

I wonder how many kids die each year on those little 2 stroke stand-up scooters that do about 40mph on a 6 inch tire?

I saw one crunched in the middle of the road a few weeks back. All I saw of the kid was a sneaker.

 

Exactly Bing... the statistics are there for anyone to read that indicate that if a kid under 12 is riding a mini sized within the guidelines, he is much safer than kids on Bikes, scooters, inline skates etc... Where they get in trouble is when they are unsupervised, without a helmet, or riding machines too large for them.

This is assuming that parents also play their part, and SUPERVISE the little buggars when they ride. I would whole heartedly support local authorities busting the parents for neglect or child endangerment if the kid isn't supervised...

Unfortunately, we have what we have, and all the bellyaching isn't going to eliminate it.... until someone posts a legal challenge to the registration laws in each state. The only other option would be for a federally mandated program.... and I am not so sure that would be a bad idea...

I could support something if I knew that it would be enforced the same way all over the country...

I can also support a program like Minnesota's that allows a kid to demonstrate their ability to handle bigger machines than the guidelines allow.

And although I do not agree with some of the weird registration requirements, but I do support a temp license fee for out of state riders to cover costs involved with development and maintenence of trail systems... much like an out of state fishing license.

I could go as far as saying I'd support a national registration if the money collected was tied to building and Maintaining trails in each state...

I think consistency is all I really care for.. then I can attack it... but with the mess we have today, it is nearly impossible...

 

Lets discuss supervision. What does that mean?
Constant second by second eye contact?
Ability to reach out and grab the child?
Direct verbal control?
Remote kill switch?

Generally, the only level of supervision we really have is mostly preventative supervision. The helmet is on, the throttle is limited to ability, the course is appropriate and the child is appropriate for the machine being used.. We can't run 30 feet and catch a kid tumbling a machine. We can't always yell loud enough to be heard through the helmet and over the engine noise. I've never seen a young person have the presence of mind to hit the kill switch when the throttle is jammed up their coat sleeve - no they just hang on for dear life until something changes - and thats usually a wall, fence, car, or flip.

We all get distracted - the cell phone rings, the wife brings a cold drink - we drop our keys or if we are also riding - we focus on any number of potential hazards and our thoughts wonder to many different issues. We hear it all the time - I just looked away - they were not looking - they didn't hear me - I just looked down - I heard something behind me. Our true involvement typically comes after the mishap as we run to the tipped over quad.

I know this as I've watched from behind my daughter catch a rock and flip the machine. I could see everything but there was no time to yell, nothing I could do but ride up to the scene of the accident and wipe the blood and dirt off the cuts and scrapes. Supervised? sure! able to do much about it? Not really. But this wasn't as tragic as many other "supervised" accidents becuase my daughter had the right gear and was on a machine that wouldn't go 50 mph and crush the life out of her when it rolled over her chest.

What is the real level of supervision we keep talking about? Could it mean monitoring to ensure that the preventive supervision exists and remains in place?

Unfortunately twice around the yard is about typical before dad goes back into the house or garage. Thats why prevention is the key element - because once underway - the child has only the safeguards or hazards that the parent provided.

 

WhoDat, safety equipment and quad size are only half the equation. To be involved, you must monitor and test your child. You TEACH them how handle certain situations. You watch for detrimental behavior and you explain why they need to change it. You practice until they do it right.

If my kiddo doesn't get her butt off the seat on bumps, I stop her and try to correct her behavior. If I don't see her leaning into turns, I stop her and correct her behavior. I will not put her in a situation (rough terrain, high speed or whatever) where she might get hurt until I know she can and will handle it correctly. There must be constant evaluation. This is why I believe the parent needs to ride behind an unexperienced child at all times. Especially a young child.



EDIT: This is also the reason I question the effectiveness of your safety course. Whether 6 or 60, you cannot teach a person to ride in one day. The difference being that a 60 year old is less likely to take risks. I know I've said it before but even if your unexperienced kid is 15, you are crazy if you think you can turn him loose after a one day course.