I read the response in your other thread. Since that thread was getting a little too long, I decided to create another - for ease of reading...

Putting a 4 year old on a 125cc quad is nuts, allowing kids to double ride is nuts, putting any kid on a mini who cannot emotionally handle it is nuts, etc. etc. we're on the same page with you on this one...

Lots of laws and "parental" ethics was also emphasised in the other post. On many points, I agree with you. Here's a situation and question for you I'm wondering if you can help me with. This really happened to me, so I can ask it...

We go trail riding in a very dense bush / logging trail area. Over 77,000 acres that's loaded with many other quads, many other motocross bikes, lots of horses and lots of winderness hickers. In the winter, I even came around the corner and met our Olympic dog team in training. This bush / riding area is so thick, deer sometimes cross the trail infront of us and we even meet a wolf once. Good thing we each get along in this postive breath taking place.

One day, my son & I were doing one of our father / son mud runs. I've got my AC 500i and he's got his Pred-90. We've got our safety equipment on and we're in the midst of heading to our favorite mud hole. As we come around the trail corner, we immediate meet 2 kids who are double riding. They appeared to be riding an older 125 machine, one kid looked around 9 and the other kid looks around 5. Yes, double riding on a large machine with no following parent / guardian, and no plate on the back of their quad. I remember this situation like it was yesterday. Where we go riding, plates & insurance is also mandatory. Everyone on this forum knows that double riding in the deep winderness on a large machine with no plate isn't legally right. On a positive side, both of them did have their helmets on.

What should I do if I come across this same situation? For example:
1 - Turn around and chase after them? If I was them and a adult on a huge new machine started following me, I'd take off like a rabbit. It would be like the cops chasing the bad guys through a school zone. Guaranteed they would get into an accident.
2 - Keep riding and wish they don't get hurt? Remember, I'm with my son and he's with me to have fun. He's NOT their to watch me chase after them, with my son close behind me since we never ride alone.
3 - Report their plate to the local cops? Since they don't have a plate, I can't do this.

Everyone on this forum knows "the law is the law" and what those kids should be legally doing. That's a given to everyone. Even my son thought those other two kids are "a serious accident waiting to happen". In this case, what is the ethical thing that one should do in this specific case???

Thanks for your "corrective action" ideas on this...

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Here's another question for "WhoDatInDaMud".

My son with his Pred-90 and I've got my AC 500i in the same trail place. This time, we're in the large sand dune area. As were having our snack / drink, another rider pulls up to us. It's a 40ish guy and his 11 year old son on his Yamaha 600. We're chatting and compareing each machines. With the father is standing beside me, the 11 year old hops on the Yamaha 600 and drives it away. Riding alone on the Yamaha 600, he guns the thottle and the 600cc unit goes into a wheelie for 8 feet. I looked at the father and said, "holy ****, he's a wild driver". The father looks at me and says, "yup, he drives just like me". He said it like he was so proud of his son for doing a wheelie with a 650 lb machine.

Everyone knows a 11 year old driving a 600cc like this is wrong. Yes - an accident waiting to happen. This is a given. From your Safety Certified perspective, what should each of us do if we see this happening again? For example:
1 - Start arguing with the father? This guy may be smaller then me but I'm with my son. My son didn't come here to see his father get into a fist fight with another adult.
2 - Write down their licence plate and immediate call 911? If wondering, we always drive with our cell phone.
3 - Hop on my quad and get infront of the kids to slow him down? Like steeping infront of a speeding train.
4 - Immediately leave, get far away from them and hop that kid doesn't get hurt?


In this case, Laws and Parenting ethics are obvious. What should "we the people in the field" do in this specific case?

Thanks for your "corrective action" ideas on this too...


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Spike, I'd slap the kid on the back, say "good Job!" and hand him a cold beer! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Yes I'm kidding!

 

I get your humor, but there are a lot of tree huggars that would love to save us from ourselves...

 

I know, I just think it's funny because I could outride my dad by age 11 or 12. If a kid can handle it, more power to him!

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]

 

tree huggars???

Oh ya, the one who chains him/herselve to a tree, spits out all sorts of laws / regulations, tells all the newspaper reporters how they are saving our trees, saving our oxygen, etc. - which generators lots of newspapers, which creates more trees to be cut down. Meanwhile, they just forced the leveling of 3 forests in their next county. Yet, these same "tree huggars" think they made things better for everyone. After all, they have a chest full of photos and newspaper write ups from their "chained to a tree" event to prove it!!!!

Yes, "tree huggars" make me laugh too....


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They don't make me Laugh, as a matter of fact, they scare the livin **** out of me!!! These guys are trying and succeding in taking over everything they can get ahold of!!!! That does not make me laugh at all!

Chris

 

Spike –
It depends. In skydiving for example – not confronting bad behavior is considered bad behavior. We have to watch out for each other and when you think nobody is watching your back – you better go jump somewhere else.
On the trail its different.
My standard answer is that the most significant impact anyone can make is to be the good example. It sounds as if your kids can already see that and what bigger impact can you make then with your own kids.
Do not confront strangers. Never ever touch a child. Ever. Unless they need obvious medical attention.
Without any credentials or authority you can just about bet money on an argument and it has a high probability of becoming violent.
I struggle with this issue myself. Frequently. But I have some minimal credentials.
What I do is to carry copies of the ATV regulations which I will offer along with the business card of the DNR Conservation Officer responsible for that district – if they have any questions.
Yes – I’ve found my tires slashed upon arriving back at the truck. Yes I’ve had fathers race out onto the lake to make it perfectly clear that I should never ever interfere in their 9 year old riding double on dads 500 Polaris ever again.
When an adult goes ballistic – I use that business card and my SAT phone or cell phone to bring the proper resources into the discussion immediately. The apology rate is 100% and going forward I meet these people at gas stations and restaurants and they always have something friendly to say or some story to tell.
I do not advocate anyone playing ATV cop. If you think someone is in immeadiate danger - call 911. I did once. Some guy had 4 small kids (under 6 years old) riding on the racks. 2 in front - 2 in the rear. Being told to F off makes me really worry about the kids safety not being considered. This was on a trail that is aggressive and heavily used.

 

Thanks for your feedback....

Yes, I too point out those very bad "outside the norm" behaviors to my son, and explain why it's NOT a good idea to do stuff like that. Then, we drive away and hope the heck those kids don't get hurt. Many many parents, I also hope that my son won't do that stuff when he gets much older. Stuff like, "take the quad out when my wife & I have our backs turned".

I know what you mean about "playing cop" and stepping between a kid and his parent. I was a Trainer on my son's hockey team last winter. During one practice, I seen a father lay into his son for NOT performing. Yes, everyone has a "bad day" and if the kid didn't feel like skating, leave him alone. That's one of main ethics on our team. After 5 minutes of watching this father screeming into his kid and watching the tears roll down this kids face, I "ethically stepped between them". Enough is enough!!! At the end, I could have laid physical abuse charges against this guy. Instead, I walked away and said, "I'm so glad I'm NOT your kid". Like you, a few days later the father approached me and admitted "he did loose it". Today, that parent is a much better father. Too bad that accident had to happen for him to see the light. Kinda reminds me of "folks outside the norm" within their mini quads.

Many thanks for taking the screeming punches from many. Yes - you've got nailed a few times. I'm sure most were from me. In "the long run", I know our sport will become much better. Each of us must endure the pain in order to bring our sport to a higher level. It's not right, but it is true.

Thank you for explaining how hard it really is to try and "clean up" our sport from within the trenches...

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