Here is where my BS meter starts sending out danger signals.... IF the reporters were able to find a dealer willing to sell the ATV knowingly that it will be ridden by someone under age according to the guidelines, I'd be real sceptical. Just try walking into your local dealer and tell him you want a raptor 660 for your 12 year old and watch his reaction... if they don't escort you to the door, you probably will be getting an ear full.

I don't think the majority will risk their livelyhood and dealership because of your desire to surprise "junior".. I'd think it was all staged for the camera and is there to illustrate the story.... Now if you are talking private sector sales.. then yeah... but a big cry of FOUL goes out to the network on that one....

I sure hope the dealer's associations are all over that one....

Clearly the media has an axe to grind... and like everything else I have come to expect from them, it is a bunch of horse hocky and glitter all wrapped up in a nice little bow...

The big deal with the idiots they found for their story is that they really missed the BAD PARENTING that was at fault, and not the ATV. So, you left the kid alone.. hmmm, child endangerment... You left the keys where they can get them... endangerment again... Lack of supervision while riding.. there they go again...."Duh, well it is the manufacturers fault for not warning me that they can be dangerous"

WELL DUHHH! Can't you read moron? Last time I looked, there was a sticker on the fender available for you to read.... Geesh, they should be sterilized so they don't create any more stupid off spring. I can't blame the kids.. they are going to do what kids do... the parents are the ones at fault...They got their 15 seconds of fame, and are soon forgotten.

 

WhoDatInDaMud,

"NOHVCC Executive Director Russ Ehnes spoke at the hearing and reported, "What the commission saw was that the overwhelming majority ATV-related injury that occurs in this country is because the rider was breaking at least one of the major safety rules set forth by the manufacturers of the vehicles. We saw numerous statistics regarding riders not wearing a helmet, riding double, riding on paved roads with automobile traffic, and alcohol use. As far as children being hurt, it was found that it was almost entirely occurring with their use of adult-sized ATVs rather than the smaller machines built for youth-sized riders."

That is exactly my point! If almost all child injuries are attributed to them riding adult ATV's, why do we need additional legislation? You can't legislate stupidity! Parents who put their children on a 600 lbs. quad should be punished severly. Why can't we get the D.A.'s office to prosecute them for child endangerment? One conviction would put this problem on the national map. CNN, CBS, USA Today, heck every news outlet, would run with this story! Headlines: "Parents convicted in kid's ATV mishap!" You can bet your bottom dollar that it would open SOME parents eyes concerning these dangers and might save a few children's lives.

One other point: You wrote, "Nationally, the Commission has reports of 5,239 people who died on ATV's during period between 1982 and 2002"

5,239 people is a lot, and is tragic. However, this entire debate and media focus is on four-wheelers. Does this figure, since it dates back to 1982, consist of deaths on 3-wheelers as well? More recent figures put the estimated death toll between 300 and 400 per year. In 2001, there were over 5.6 million ATV's in the United States(I'm sure it's higher than that now). 5.6 million vs. 300 - 400 deaths, doesn't seem like a lot to me. Children under the ages of 16 account for about 30% of the deaths, so around 100 per year. Of these 100, the VAST MAJORITY(one study I read put the number at higher than 90%), were killed on adult sized ATV's. That would leave less than 10 children a year getting killed on youth ATV's and of those 10, we don't know if they were riding without helmet, on streets, unsupervised.
The parents of the 90+ children killed every year on adult ATV's should be thinking about it from a jail cell, period.

Fish

 

i know that in the state of mn last year all the people killed on quads were in one of these catagories
1) young kid on adult machine
2) some one who had been drinking alcohol
3) a person on drugs
4) or a newbie that had no atv safety training ,
this is just crazy that we let people buy a atv with no traing and then the idiot lets there young child take it out and ride it , and then blame the manufacture for there idiocy ..[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

 

oh yea i for got one of the biggest catagories is
1) riding with out a helmet
2) or riding double

 

I see a lot of safety instructors weighing in on this thread... what do you see the safety industry doing to address the situation like the one I have, where I have a 9 year old, 5 feet in height, over a hundred pounds and riding an 80 CC raptor 80 versus the 50 because teh 50 won't perform in a manner I find safe under conditions where hills or sand riding is inevitable... Is there hope that the guidelines that are being quoted all the time will be made more flexible to accomodate the outsized rider?

I can't support turning away a kid who really wants the safety training becasue of a catch 22 situation like this...

 

Hey Raptorlegs
When I refered to kids riding adult sized machines I mean kids in the 5-12 year old range, I do not mean a 15 yo on a blaster! I have seen little kids out riding sportsmans with not a single parent around! My son knows better than to ever ride his quad without me around!! That is a real good way to loose it and he never wants that!

Chris

 

Dragginbutt....the industry is gonna do what is safe for themselves concerning recommended user ages and size of atv's.. If they make a provision for your child, it only opens up a loophole for the anti-atv crowd too have their way. No doubt exposes the manufacturer too more unwanted liability concerns as well. Whats a guy too do? Do what is best for your child. If that means veering away from manufacturers recommendations then so be it! They are only recommendations.......that are in place for the manufacturer to cover their rear.
On the flipside, I see kids all of the time riding atv's they obviously should not be on. No-matter what the laws are there is no one out on the trails too police them....and thats where 99% of the riders are. Govt and your local yahoos getting paid too do nothing can make all of the "feel good about themselves" rules and laws they want.........it's not gonna make a difference. The difference comes from the parents! If it were only these moron parents that we were thinning out and not the unknowing children I would be a lot happier about the situation. Thinning out the weak end of the gene pool is a good thing IMO.
Gary

 

A question for WhoDat. You say:

<i>As a DNR ATV Safety Instructor my job is to test youth to see if they meet the knowledge, skill and ability requirements so that they can ride larger than 90 cc quads once they turn 12 years old. We try to get them started off right and safely. Telling anyone to dissregard the laws and requlations would make us hipocrates and undermine respect for what it is we are trying to accomplish - safe legal youth operation of ATV's that fit them.</i>

An excellent statement and one that I agree with. If I read this correctly, you are advocating that kids 12 to 16 CAN ride larger that 90cc quads once they pass an approved safety course. A great idea, but the thing is, this in itself is in violtion of the current CSPC regs. So, do you (or your state) choose to disreguard the 90cc/ under 16 year old cap? I believe that Wisconsin has a similar view: under 12 can ride up to 90cc, 12 to 16's must have a safety course but no cc cap is mentioned. And if you (or your state) do choose to not follow the CSPC guidelines, then do you agree that the current cc/age limits are unrealistic?

This is the quandry that most of find ourselves in. The current guidelines exist solely as a liability limiter - put a 15 year old with years of riding experience on a Z250 and if for any reason he is injured, everyone points a finger at the sticker on the fender and says, "I told you so". The guidelines are flawed as they were created by people with no ATV experience whatsoever. As parents who wish to share ATVing with our children, most of us have no choice but to disreguard the CSPC. My 12 year old is moving from a Honda 90 to an Ozark 250. The Ozark fits him better, and with 6 years riding experience is a good match for his riding skills. As a better machine (brakes, suspension, available power) than the TRX, it is a safer ride for him than the smaller bike. Yet, in my state, there is no safety course that will allow him to test out on a 250cc machine. He has passed MY safety course, which I bet would make any testing procedure by any state seem like a walk in the park. He wears his helmet or he doesn't ride. He only rides in the company of adults (parents or uncle). We are in radio contact with him at all times. He's never be hurt more than a few bumps or scratches but the possibility exists that he could sustain a more serious injury at any time - this is the reality of ATVing.

We are regulating the wrong thing - instead of limiting cc size we should be forcing some stricter parental guidelines.

Jaybee

 

Yes - As a DNR ATV Safety Instructor I work to ALLOW 12-15 year olds to legally ride larger than 90cc machines.

Minnesota has a youthful rider program that allows 12-15 year olds the oppertunity to ride larger then 90cc ATV's as long as they:
1) complete the computer based home study course
2) pass the written portion of a test
3) pass the demonstrated skills ability course, and
4) meet the physical requirements for proper "fit" to the machine they are riding. (note - not the machine they take the test on. you cant test on a 325 and then take-off on dads 700 if its not the right fit)

Its a good program but its not perfect. One of the students in our first class of 22 has already found himself wrapped around a tree and dead at 14. High speed and two riders on a hopped up quad will do that. This was the son of another ATV instructor. Go figure.

I to felt the pain of having a tall kid on a 90cc quad. It looked like a circus clown on a kiddie car. But.... after having seen the entrails of a child extruding from their nostrils because the handlebars of a 400cc machine were stuffed up their chest cavity - We decided to risk the possibility of minor injuries and the childs social genocide by riding a light weight machine vs. the possibilites as previously mentioned. A 13 she got a brand new Recon after completeing the youthful rider safety program..

You have to be 16 to fly an airplane
You have to be 16 to drive a car
You have to be 21 to drink
You have to be 28 to be President
You have to be 18 to smoke
You have to be 16 or get the safety certificate to ride over 90cc ATV's on public property. Here in Minnesota

 

And I suppose their parents were beside them the whole time they were riding?