According to the National Institute of Mental Health - An estimated 1 in 5 adults—suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year.
Lets do the math
This means that there are 44 million people who potentially are going to struggle with the logic and reasoning in established rules and regulations outside of their personal comfort area.
With a forum membership of over 47,000 persons this means that about 10,000 people who post here might struggle with understanding the rationality of any given post.
So far - there have been about a dozen persons who responded with repulsion to age restrictions, rules or laws regarding youthful ATV operators.
Again – the laws are made to establish a safety net for children when parents fail to either understand the risk or make appropriate decisions. We all know parents who have made both bad or good decisions in or out of the boundaries of what is "legal".
I work (and not just sit and post on the internet) to allow children 12 – 15 to ride larger than 90cc ATV’s legally. With proper training and demonstrated ability.
I know I’ve posted this same information on what we DO to ALLOW youthful riders a greater opportunity to ride larger quads – but some people just don’t get it.
So based on the math - I guess it could be worse.

 

You have a holier-than-thou attitude and hide behind guidelines that were developed by people who would like to do away with our sport. Then, you wonder why we get our feathers ruffled. Who doesn't get it?

A lot of us have the capability to think for ourselves. You should try it sometime instead of shoving a bunch of BS recommendations down people's throat. Again, one size never has and never will fit all, regardless of age. I have never accepted punishing everbody because of a few people's bad decisions. And I never will. I thank my own state legislature for not listening to people like you. I cherish my freedoms. One of which is the right to disagree.

You think what you DO is so much more important than what we DO everyday to teach our children? I don't give my child a course for a couple of hours, make a judgement then turn her loose. I'm with her everytime she goes out. Who better to evaluate her? You? You and your course are bad jokes.

 

I dito what Raptor legs said.

Granted 4 yr old on a 300+ machine is crazy, but there is no way in hell I will put my 200+pd. 14yr old on a 90 because some A-hole made up some crazy guidelines. That would be like putting my kid on a death machine. It's that simple.

In no way will I let my kids ride something that they are not ready for...END OF STORY!!!


justinsmom

 

This is very interesting stats for sure (assuming they are true). This also explains why 1/5 of the folks at CBS did a biased story on mini quads. This explains why 1/5 people can't distinguish between "the law" (like it was their religions god) and common safety sence, and it also explains why some people have so much emotional problems after a child dies - from any accident or unforseen illness. If I do this math, it also explains that 1/5 of the ATV Instructors around the world have mental disorders as well. When you look at your class of students, sure hope you don't immediately judge 1/5 of them being `off their rockers` as well....

On the more serious side.... I read your post this morning and thought about it all day. One of the those, "let's try an experiment" things that came to mind. As I drove into work, I counted the cars that drove past me in the opposite direction, I walked down the street and assumded 1 out of every 5 people are nuts and when I ate lunch in a big place, I thought 1 out of 5 people are nuts too. Each of them could pull out a knife, drive into me head on with their car, pull out a gun or press their finger on their car bomb. The next time I meet 10 ATVers on my trails, I will immediately assume that 2 of them are nuts. They are going out to hurt themselves or others because they don't know any better. At the end of today, I fully realized how much of a "worry wart" and negative world you live in. One of a 5 of us are nuts, one out of 5 will hurt themselves and/or others and 1 out of 5 needs to be in a rubber room. You may want to let youself live in this world. Sure glad I don't see our world the same "negative way" you do.....


Based on your original reply of quoting laws in your specific state, it sounds like you would ban anyone from driving an ATV - unless they pass your certification exam.


.

 

That stat comes from their website.

I did the same thing this AM. I thought about the cars cutting me off on the freeway, those running the red lights and the 90mph teen wearing a NASCAR hat - driving as if he was in a stock car race but speeding along in rusted out POS obviously lacking in shocks. I thought one out of five might be on the low side but it does help explain a lot of things.

One mistake is to think that all mental illness is violent - as in your post. The best explination I could get from people I know at the U of MN was that any condition that prevents a person from coming to a rational decision - is not healthy. So whats rational?

Some examples of not rational would be:
To be a ATV safety instructor and decide that I am above the law and not hold it in strict observance.
To undermine the integrity of the youth ATV safety law and program - by suggesting some are exempt from it - based on my personal opinion or on the insistance of their parent. (try telling the cop your daddy said it was ok to speed)
Not rational is expecting the police to let you ignore the law - but nail the other guy.

I was trying to think of other examples that might help people understand that my NOT holding the State law in strict observance would make any ATV instructor a hypocrite and subject to scrutiny - but the only example was not related to that - but rather in other examples of exceptance of law. I asked several today how they felt about fishing without a license. 100% declared they wouldnt even consider it for a single day - as the risk and penalty of getting caught was to high.

If it were up to me - I would choose to not have age regulations like this - but rather have a process of holding parents more responsible when they are stupid and make bad decisions that put their kids at risk of injury. Unfortunetly I think we are stuck with more like fishing license logic. The SPCA recommendations were grossly ignored so penalties to force compliance were implemented. I don't make the laws. I don't even enforce the laws. I just help 12-15 year olds get onto bigger than 90cc quads.

Your partially correct Spike - Some States are in the process of requiring EVERYONE to take and pass a ATV training course. In Minnesota it is being strongly recommended. There is legislation that has been proposed to limit ATV operation to only those with a drivers license and mandatory liability insurance may also be coming. In this State - Snowmobile liability insurance is already a requiirement - as a example.

My personal opinion is that there should be some kind of certification or license not unlike a motorcycle endorcement. Maybe we could catch that 1 out of 5 who can't comprehend why doing sod rooster tail circles across the baseball or football field is a bad idea. Long before I ever owned a ATV - my township had already passed a ordinance requireing anyone operating a ATV on public property to have a drivers license - or in the case of youth - to have a ATV safety certificate from the State and be accompainied by a parent. None of this matters to me as everyone in my house - adult or child - has the certificate after taking the tests and doing the studying. Nobody was hurt by it.

The lawyers are having a field day with ATV's. I have neighbors who have to report to court after recieving cease orders for operating ATV's on their own personal owned property. Observed and video taped by a neighbor - the charge is "dangerous operation of a motorized vehicle": The good news is that I will be providing expert testimony to the town board. The only thing dangerous is the neighbor video taping the neighbors. (1 in 5 again)

 

All I can say is that if new laws come on the books, I hope that they don't single ATV riders out... which is happening right now. You don't see it for bicycles.. but significantly more injuries and deaths occur each year on them... you don't see it on mini bikes, dirt bikes etc. I see no limits on snowmobiles in many states, scooters, heck nowhere do you see such an outright attack other than maybe the personal watercraft industry.

Everyone here on this thread is passionate about what we are doing. Whodat, raptorlegs, spike and myself are probably more passionate about what we do and how we relate to our kids than the majority...we certainly are not shy about vocalizing our opinions... however I also think that if asked, most parents would probably feel the same way. All we want is for our kids to be allowed to ride their 4 wheeler in peace without the fear of Johnny law getting involved. That doesn't mean I am stupid, incapable of making rational decisions, or crazy... although I have been having problems with that metal plate in my head lately....

I just hate being singled out. Rather than fighting each other or trying to change each other's thought process (what, there is a process, Heck I just spurt things out), I think Spike hit it on the head, we need to work together and make our sport stronger, safer and highlight the family aspect. I mean after all that is what we are talking about.. quality family time.... and I could just as easily put my child in danger by taking him hiking in the woods where he could be attacked by a bear, mountain lion, snake etc, or he could get hurt taking a whitewater river ride etc... In fact, I took my daughter to boulder falls once when she was 4, and somehow she slipped and almost fell into the raging water. Thank God I was there and was within arms length of her long blond hair, or she would have been lost in seconds.

The bottom line is there is danger in everything we do. Now, how do we make the quads wider so they are not so tippy. And how do we lobby the manufacturers to put lights on ALL mini quads. These are safety issues that make a hell of a lot more sense for us to discuss than this ongoing littany. Time to move on...

 

I'm getting dizzy again!!!!

To get daytime running lights (which are mandatory on cars, snowmobiles & street motorcycles), mandatory skide plates, mandatory padded cross bars, mandatory dual brake controls, wider, lighter, less seat height, etc. on every mini, it appears we have to follow the above steps. I'm always willing to try and make things better. Got over 270 pictures in an online album to help others reduce their learning / development time. If I follow the above 3 steps, I'd be a grandfather before anything would change. Maybe, padded handle bars might get passed. It amazes me that laws to restrict our ATVs are passed with a short swipe of a pen, yet one has to lobby for 30 years to enforce the obvious safety upgrades. The obvious that safety of machine, driver and supervision is from "the trenchs upwards". Too bad some people on this earth feel its from the ivory tower downwards. Did someone once say something about "same sex law"??? Isn't that an Ivory Tower downward law too???

Something to think about!!!

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If someone has a better idea let them step up to the microphone.

I have written hundreds of State law makers. I've talked myself blue in the face at community events, State Fairs and political canididate meetings to spark someones interest in sponsoring a bill that would allow youthful riders to get their safety permit based on "fit" to the machine knowledge and skill - and not age. Zero response.

My brother is extremely active in DNR funding and fishing in Minnesota. He is on State professional boards and has been out fishing with George Bush Sr. Most of his time is spent attempting to make changes to State law. Its a tough road to go down.

Even if you do get a sub-committee to approve a bill written and sponsored by a law maker - some gaay-rights or marriage protection group will attach their agendas ammendment to it and the original intent of the bill is lost and never heard on the floor because of the political debate over the attachements.

What I do see is that the State keeps modifying the laws to allow bigger, heavier ATV's just about every year. They appear to be reacting not to the needs of the people - but rather adjusting to the machines being delivered to the public.

A good example of this is the new two-rider ATV's. 4 years ago there was nothing on the books for 2 rider quads.

If this is any kind of example - what we need to do is get manufactures to first build a larger 90cc with all the options and features mentioned here above and over time - do the same thing - just keep raising the engine size a little bit each year and have the laws adjust accordingly. Small steps rather then a large chunk to choke on.

my 2 cents

 

I would let my 3 year old ride all your quads cause they are slooooow!!!

 

1 in 5 has a mental illness issue every year. That stat comes from people who depend on public funding for there living the higher the stat the more public funding. I know a lot of councilors and mental health proffessionals. These people will consider it a mental episode if you get mad at the neighbor over starting his mower at 6am, provided you are upset enough to grumble through your morning and still kind of pissed latter in the day that will qualify as a mental health episode. If you yell in your car and make the normal threats about I should kick that guys *** etc. That would qualify with those people as that you have anger issues. I never trust info from these people I have arrrested plenty of marrage councilors for domestic abuse. Most people who take up those fields do so trying to fix themselves first. Their info is worthless, ever watch a trial the defense finds a mental health person to claim one thing the prosecution finds one that believes different, the state order an evaluation by another proffessional and you get a third opinion. Quoting useless stats as a deffense sounds like democrats arguing why they should have a program to use my money to protect me from myself. Big goverment has never solved anything and never will.