WhoDatInDaMud,

Many thanks for your DNR & other safety Web sites. Despite our mud throwing "moments" over your emphasis on safety, I know your http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/safety/ve...atv/index.html and http://kare11.com/links/contact_deta...?NEWS_ID=63469 links will help many people on this forum. Thank you for showing us your wells. Not too sure if all the horses will drink, but at least we know now know where very valuable information exists. Even if the "yourg riders" on this forum don't meet your minimum age of 12, I'm hoping many will order your CD package. Even if it helps one kid be a better rider, your CDs will be well worth it.

Question: Can folks out of your region call the listed 1-800 numbers or yourself to order the CD? For the improvement of many kids (and their parents), I'm hoping YES.

Again, thanks for the info...

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MUDDY4LIFE,

I would agree 1000%. Spending time to teach little Joey how to be a better / safety rider is a waste of time if their Supervisoring Escort doesn't beleive in safety and/or telling the young rider to break the rules each time they go quading together. I used to be a hockey coach and currently am a baseball coach. From my coaching experiences in these sports, I can tell you that "life's rules" sure are different from a coach's perspective. To get maximun learning and long term gain within these sports, we must teach the attending parents as well. Later, the parent then becomes our unofficial assistant who will continue to teach their own kid within their back yard. Teach the parent who will continue to teach the student is an excellent approach in any sport.

Here's a simple safety question. If a quad's engine in running and you need to mount it, which side of the quad should the rider mount the quad? For example, hande brake side or gas throttle side? I know the answer - but you'd be amazed how many people I see mount their motocross and quad bike from the unsafe side. Something to think of....

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We ALLWAYS mount our ATVs from the left side,even if the brake is set and the engine is OFF..It is just good practice and can assure a student that has inadvertantly left his/her engine running and left the quad in gear,that they wont accidently hit the throttle mounting from the right side.

Bill

 

Good saftey/trivia question. I will give that one to all my buddies I ride with, see what they come up with.

 

Thanks to forum discussions like these, and a few enlightened people who have the knowledge we all seek, I think at least in my own case, a lot of us may have done an about face a couple times on this subject...(Hey, the Dragginbutt has been known to be wrong in the past...only now I can use my age as an excuse) .I think I am seeing the light.. but I would like to get a little clarification if I could... Is there a difference between a certification course, and a safety course that builds skills?

I have been (probably wrong about this) under the impression that the rider safety course that is offered to all who purchase new machines was going to be based on demonstration and hands on training on riding skills and would be focused on providing the basic riding skills to novice riders. I now believe that in looking at a curriculum, it looks like the riding skills portion may represent only a small part of the course work.

My wife and I were scheduled to attend a local course last Weekend, unfortunately it rained heavily the night before, and they had to cancel... now we wait until Sept.. anyway, we were asked to provide the users manual of the machines.. I expect that they will teach us basic maintenence, how to check fluids and air pressure etc... but I am hoping to see a lot of riding skill development as well.

My wife is a total novice, and this would in fact have been her first time on a machine... Until now, my sons and I have managed to keep this a male bonding thing in our family which was breached only briefly when my daughter decided to get into the act, but decided it was not for her after having to spend hours getting mud and crud out of her hair. Any way I am looking forward to getting the better half (and I mean that sincerely) muddy. (For some reason I keep getting this vision of female mud wrestling in my head) Ouch, I got bonked for that one....

So I now think the postonement was probably a blessing in disguise, as it will give me time to get her up to speed with the basics and between the two of us, we can both learn all the bells and whistles I got with the new Rubicon I purchased for "her" (yeah right).

Kudo's to Whodatinthemud for putting up with the heat... I appologise for being a little harsh in some of my posts. A throwback to my Drill Sergeant days....

 

I instruct the hands on ATV Safety Institute class offered by the manufactures of ATVs for new,first time riders of ATVs..Im going into my 4th yr of instruction..The ASI course is a fabulous safety course,however,it does have a few shortcomings,especially when you factor in that it simple does not reach out to our youth between the ages of 6-15 the way it should,because of the age/cc recommendations that ALL ASI instructors MUST follow in order to instruct the class..For example,the manufactures RECOMMEND the following guidelines,

Ages 6-11,not over 69cc
Ages 12-15,not over 90cc

ASI Instructors MUST not instruct OUTSIDE of these guidelines..The problem here is that 97% of the youth that fall into the 6-15yr old age group are not riding the manufactures age/cc ATV,and in most cases,rightfully so..So that means that they CANNOT take the safety course offered by ASI unless they can somehow come up with a quad within the above guidelines,most DONT,so most youth dont get trained..

Now in Michigan,I have a program that I Direct,that,if in the eyes of a trained and professional safety instructor,your youth comes to our class on an ATV outside of the manufactures age/cc guidelines and he/she FITS the quad and properly displays that they can operate it correctly,we WILL allow them to take our safety course on that ATV and can also certify them on it..

The ASI safety course is SUPPOSE to be for those that have NO EXPERIENCE and are first time buyers..But I gotta tell you,very RARLEY do I get students that have never rode an ATV before.Most come to get their free incentive of either 75 or 100 bucks and come to get ''refreshed'' on the laws.Still,I think its a great course for adults.

Bill

 

It is sad that the decisions come down to the $100 bucks and not whether they need it or not. I think everyone, no matter how good of a rider they think they are, could stand to learn something they didn't know. Even if it is just an update of the laws as you stated.

I admit, even after riding all my life, and ATV's for 6 years, that I feel in my heart that there is little to be gained other than the warm feeling of putting a hundred bucks in my pocket. But I am going in hoping to learn a few new tricks that I can apply when I am teaching my 9 year old. So I guess it is worth a few hours if it means I can learn a little more and pass it along.

In my wife's case however, she will gain a lot of benefit.

I congratulate the instructors that recognise the size issue, and I can accept the fact that you would be a hipocrite (sp) if you did not adhere to the guidelines you are certified to teach. I am heartened to learn that at least in some states, there are a few forward thinkers that have provided a means by which kids that don't fit the cookie cutter mold can find a way to receive the instruction, and in some cases certifications that enable them to move to a machine that better fits their needs.

Maybe some day, other states will learn from your examples and update their thinking. Until then, we can only hope.

 

MUDDY4LIFE,

During your recent classes, I'm sure you ask each parent (and possible young rider) to fill in a Class Evaluation report. One of those, "how was the instructor?", "how was the environment?", "do you feel what your learned will benefit your ATV riding life?" type feedback things. Hopefully, you do this for many of your sessions. As a favor, can you pull out many copies of their written feedback? No names or personal details. Just wondering if we could obtain some "unfiltered" and randon feedback who have taken your course, or courses of your coworkers... Why? Hopefully you've received more positive "wow! I didn't know that?" feedback then "was a waste of my money" feedback.

As a side note: I really like your comments of "my course and our training programs isn't perfect!". When people state this, I immediately pay attention and listen. To me, you aren't on this forum to shove laws and death kill stats down people's throats. You are not here to force ALL uncertified kids off minis. You are here to help our sport and our industry to become better - within the ethical boundaries of being an ATV Instructor. I like that in a person. If wondering, I'm sure many would pay the $75-$100 if the course has lots of "meat & potatos". If a course is only paper work and theory (re: what I call lettice), then people don't like paying the bucks. Something to think of.....

Thanks for your future "random and unfiltered" evaluations from your previous class members....

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SPIKE,
im sorry,but the only feedback I get from my students is a bunch of handshakes at the end of my class and a few students that will call me back throughout the yr to ask me a few ATV related questions.I have concidered doing a feedback chart like YOU mentioned but as of yet,I'd have to GUESSTIMATE,based on handshakes and verbal ''thank you,your class was excellant''on how many folks enjoy the class..And if I were a betting man,I'd say im pretty close to 98% or better..I know I sound cocky and confident,but based on the recommendations and comments from others,I put on one hell of a safety course and I LOVE what im doing..

Maybe someday real soon though?

Bill

 

MUDDY4LIFE,

Due to my profession, I have to take 6-10 courses per year. At the end of every session I take, I have to fill in one of those "anonymous" class questionairres. You might want to consider using an "anonymous" class questionairre at the end of your course. One of those 10 minutes feedback things that asks the students what they liked and don't like. Major areas are Instructor, Environment, would they apply it in real life, etc. groupings that are rated between 1-5. Each section could also have an area of free form text. In these area, students (and parents) could enter in their own words what they liked and areas of improvement. With feedback from the previous class, chop off the bottom 10%, chop off the top 10% and work with the 80% DATA. 80% should represent the "norm" of your students. What people put in writing vrs what they say is amazing. For example, "too much time spent on theory" and more time should be spent on practicing "K-Turns". For my son, he doesn't like theory. Only 10% of it sticks. But if you show him how to perform a 3 point turn on the side of the hill 2 times, he's got it nailed down really good. Hopefully, everyone on this forum who does trail riding has shown their kid how to perform safe K-Turns. Could be a life saver one day....

Anyway, "anonymous" class questionairres is something to consider in the future....

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