Amen to that, excellent point and very well said. That is one of the best opinions I have seen in any of the topics on this whole Forum

 

Also, can anybody get a copy of the CD you talked about? I would love to get one.

I put all my kids through our own training. There is no requirement in my state. I got them a LT80, and age wise they cannot go through the safety course. I think my training was more thorough and ongoing that just the half day class. It did include everything they teach in the ASI course, just added a few things and very repetitive. I continue to work with them every time we go out. I didn't care about the money, just want my kids to be safe.

 

You would think that we as adults could solve this issue, but for now, that is impossible.... and that is the most frustrating thing about the whole deal. Everyone knows the issues, just about everyone agrees that the guidelines need to be revised.. so why can't it just get done? Leave the age limits the way they are, but as in some states, provide a means to stepping up if they can show the required ability.

I don't think we are talking putting a 10 year old on a banshee.. but a 10 year old on a 90 might make sense... at least give them a chance to take the safety course and make sure they have the fundamentals down. Heck, the factories could throw in a few kid sized machines for the schooling if they are needed. I bet it would lead to increased sales... but nobody is going to stand up and say it needs to change because they do not want to be the one liable.

And let's make it clear right now... ATV's do NOT kill or maim. A person, no matter what their age has a certain amount of implied responsibility when they climb up on that saddle. Treat it with respect and you should come out unscathed. Treat it without respect, and you get hurt... but don't blame the manufacturers for your stupidity or bad choices... or the land owners either... Take responsibility for your own actions.

And parents, you need to take the little tike aside and read them the riot act, then SUPERVISE the kid. That is your job! The kid's job is to have fun... but within reason, and by following your rules.

 

DRAGGINBUTT,
the manufactures will NEVER agree to adjust the age/cc recommendations..Its part of an agreement that they signed back in 1988 with the CPSC.

Back in the mid 80s when 3 wheelers were running rampent throughout the world and everyone was being injured on them,the Consumer Product Safety Commission stepped in and in 1985,they filed lawsuits against EVERY ATV manufacture that sold/produced a 3 wheeler.

In 1988,the CPSC BANNED 3 wheelers from being sold in the USA..In order for 4 wheelers to NOT be included in this same banning,there were certain things that the ATV manufactures HAD to agree to do with 4 wheelers.One of the things the manufactures HAD to agreed to do was to not SELL ATVs outside of the AGE/CC recommendations that we talked about earlier.They also included the warning lables that you see all over ATVs since 1988,and agreed to make safety training classes available for free to new buyers as long as the student was within the age/cc recommedations.So as you can see,this age/cc stuff was an AGREEMENT between the CPSC and the manufactures way back in 1988 so that 4 wheelers did not also get included in the same banning as the 3 wheelers.

QUAD4FUN,
thank you for your kind and conciderate words.

 

Yes, I know the history of the CPSC agreements, but they are out of date... The quads are a LOT better and more sophisticated now days than they were back then. I agree fully with the safety concerns... as I always thought they were death traps, and I used to own and ride one...(CR250)

The point is also that the riding has changed as well.. and I hate to say it, but I think kids have changed too... they sure seem to be able to do stuff that we would never have even dreamed of doing. Maybe that is my gray hair showing.. I don't know.

Either way, it is pretty naive to think that things do not to be reviewed. The sheer numbers of machines that are out there and the obvious confusion in how they are being interpreted warrants it.

 

Just had an incident the other day that brings this all close to home... I was visiting a friend, and next door, the kids there were riding ATV's out in their yard. They had a friend visiting and he was bugging them to let him try his "Luck". well to make a long story short, here was a kid with no experience on a machine too big for him according to the guidelines out blasting around, and taking a jump. Well the inevitable accident waiting to happen occurred. And the kid was killed. Even with a helmet, it crushed his skull. Who was at fault? The parent who was NOT THERE SUPERVISING?... the kids for letting him take it without proper training? The parent who let their kids out with a machine that didn't meet the guidelines? I don't know.... Maybe it was our "Don't tread on me" point of view we take all to often without thinking.

I suspect the kid would still be here if a parent was present. Imagine getting a phone call from a parent telling you that your son who was sleeping over for the night with a friend was killed.

Come on parents, these things carry a lot of responsibility. They are NOT babysitters. Get out there and PAY ATTENTION!

 

Here is the problem as I see it. The state wants to take responsibility for kids safety. They think that parents are incapable of keeping their children safe without intervention. Theyre probably right with some parents I've seen. In the process, just like in every new line of regulation that comes along, those of us who are responsible and who do the right thing to the best of our ability get penalized in the process.

Taking my child to a training course will not make him a better rider. Me sitting in one, listening to an instructer who has ridden less than 1/10 the number of years as I have will not teach me how to raise my kids or how to ride my quad. Learning the laws might be useful if I didnt know them but all that requires is a simple pamphlet or book which I have yet to see in my state.

Child training courses are a 10% solution. The majority of people who would let their kids ride unsupervised would not bother to bring their kids to a training class. Those parents who are responsible usually dont need it. Advocates say that not allowing dealers to sell to families without the training solves the problem but we all know that is not entirely true. Used quads, quads bought out of state and online all avoid these rules.

We need better parents not more students. I'm sure the self rightous will say they know training has saved lives and they may be right. But I see training as the smallest part of the equation. Guns, ATV's, watching telivision and eating Mcdonalds food are all potentially harmful to children. Training courses and regulation arent the solution. The solution is changing the mindset of society towards good parenting and social and individual responsibility and away from working moms, the portrayal of every father figure as a dumba$$ and the general disintigration of individual responsibilty.

And no I'm no Politician. I hate politics but I can see what's going on and I don't like it.

 

How terribly tragic and sad for that family....

Just yesterday my best friend of many many years and many adventures called to tell me that his 14 year old son took his dads 500cc quad out while Dad was at work- flipped the quad on top of him on the black top and is pretty banged up with deforming scars and flesh damage. Turns out that Jr. had the "missing" spare key to the cable lock securing the quad. His ATV safety permit is about 3 weeks old.

To quote my friend "just having these things in the garage with young teens around is to dangerous - they will find a way to do the wrong thing when nobodys looking". This from a guy who is more liberal with letting his kids do things with power toys then I care to even go into.

Maybe he has a point. Maybe kids and quads mix about as well as alcohol and driving. Just an accident looking for a place to happen. Maybe having the maturity and responsibility of a drivers license is where the line get drawn.

I don't have an answer for it. Just questions....

 

Without knowing it Glimp, I think you hit it on the head. The secret is parents becoming involved.. and I am not just talking about teaching them the right way to ride either... I mean you also need to get involved with the local clubs, and any other organization that gets face time with decision makers. Let your voice be heard, and your opinions known. I'd much rather work from the inside than sit back and not say anything, then bitch when the new legislation doesn't match my own view on what the world should look like... I think if enough of us get involved, we can formulate a better solution....

 

I don't know if anyones given it much consideration but - the plan seems to be to educate the kids now - so they will be the "informed" parents 20 years from now. I agree that there is a element of parents out their that did what they wanted as kids and will do as they want as parents. Maybe if they get to the majority of kids now - the majority of parents will have a clue when they start putting their offspring onto power toys in the future.

Just like my friend - until they have to stand outside the emergancy room door waiting to talk to the doctor - all these rules are for everyone else - not for them.