I don't think anyone would argue with the parental invlovement issue... but I hesitate to point fingers at training as a means of being the end all solution... It plays a major part though....and I would advocate that at least one parent/responsible adult attend with the juvenile. You can't unscrew the head and pour the knowledge in, but I suspect that no matter how good of a rider you are, a refresher will benefit the both of you. If for no other reason than to update you on local laws, changes etc.

I also take issue with those that claim the measure of being a "good" rider as one who can go faster than all the rest... to me, the person who places safety above all else, and repects the property and rights of everyone else, puts them way ahead on the list. Going fast is nowhere on my list... Maybe that came from months of laying in a hospital bed, and the years of physical therapy and pain management I have endured oveer the years when my throttle thumb overloaded my brain. It is amazing how many inteligent conversations you have with yourself when you are laying there in a full body cast after breaking your back.... of shattering your knee. Was it boredom or the drugs.. I don't know... but it sure is one of those life changing experiences.

Whodat, I sure hope that the professional organizations that you belong to listen when people like you and I speak. The guidelines are in need of tweaking... and I hope they are working on a review process that not only receptive to change, but also reflects a more realistic image of the sport today. When the original guidelines were produced, they were in direct response to the 3 wheeled death traps we saw back in the day... today's machines are much improved. And the sheer numbers of persons riding them has increased exponentially. I read somewhere that it is approaching 10 percent of the population... That rates high up there. It is time that work begins on updating the rules of the road, and this time, they should not be driven by the manufacturers...

 

I'm not against safety guidelines but we need to realize a few things.

Even being the best parents we can be, accidents happen and will happen. The goal is to make those infrequent as we can but they will happen weather to children or adults. But, just like cars, that doesnt mean we abandon riding all together. Danger is a part of life. There is no such thing as a perfectly safe sport. People hurt themselves playing table tennis and we won't even talk about football.

Education is a good starting point but there are alot more problems at work here than just ATV safety. If kids have the wrong attitudes (weather brought on by poor parenting or genetics) they will probably never be safe on a quad till they've had some stiches. Ever hear of the painful truth? Or that the truth hurts? I learned what it means to ride within my ability by flipping my little kdx75 when I was 8. 14 stitches on my arm as a result and I'm glad it happened. It sounds like Dragginbutt learned his lesson a bit more painfully than I did...

 

well yes... at least I think I did, but I still catch myself executing a brain fart once in a while... I should have learned the lesson when I broke the back... I thought I was reliving my childhood doing donuts on my warrior when my older son unexpectedly crossed my path. I let off the throttle for a second, and the tires bit.. next thing I know, I am up on one wheel doing a mondo wheelie. I paniced, and grabbed the bars harder, which included the throttle. I swear the darn thing jumped into the air and flipped upside down with me still on the pegs. It pounded me into the ground. broke the back, and unknown to me at the time, broke the leg just under the right knee and severed the ACL.. I have to tell you I had a very sick feeling laying there on the ground knowing the back had gone pop, and being paralized for about 2 days until the swelling abated and I was able to move my toes and legs. Yeah, I learned life's lessons the hard way... it is the only way I know how...

I didn't learn of the ACL injury until a few years later when I was again being stupid loading my son's dirt bike into my pickup and when I stepped into the bed, it popped. My upper bone ended up sliding down over the top of my lower bone about 6 inches.. all inside the extremely stretched skin. I had to lay there and pull everything back into their relative positions before I could move. (And no, I did not drop the bike on top of me in the process). Needless to say, when all was said and done, I think I managed to understand how a woman in childbirth must feel.

Now I get to use a cane to climb stairs... a result of poor surgury technique and a lack of Hamstrings in the right leg. (used to build a new ACL ligament) Thank God for the pain killers.

 

Education is the key to the future safety of our sport..Over 40% of Nationwide injuries on ATVs that require a visit to the hospital is happening to our YOUTH 16yrs old and under..As a parent and licensed ATV Safety Instructor/Director,this indicates one thing to me??TOO MANY PARENTS or ADULTS are NOT involving or including themselves in the ATV activities with their OWN youths.Far to many adults are handing the keys to the ATV over to their youth with NO proir training or NO visual supervision and too many times the end result in an injury..

Thus comes governmental intervention.When WE dont take care of our kids,the government will try and do it for us.

And their is still a VOLUNTARY agreement between the CPSC and the manufactures to abide by the old 1988 Consent Decree Agreement.Even today,stifff fines are in order for dealerships that do not abide by these age/cc recommendations.I know,I also work part time at an ATV dealership.

 

I don't have a problem with the way the dealers try and abide by the agreements of long ago.. my complaints have always centered around the way the guidelines are interpreted in each state, and the inconsistency brought about by this. The safety council is not a lot of help here either, as they abide by the State's interpretations. Where they could be a great help to the state authority... they choose to remain silent and take what they are given to work with. Somehow that speaks about their passion for the sport..or lack thereof. Not to say they are all bad apples... but there are a lot of them out there.. at least they must be concentrated in my local area.

Now with state laws changing every day, my 9 year old is getting shut out of more and more opportunites to ride.. and that sends a bad signal too, as I believe the best age to teach him responibility, respect and problem solving is now when he is open to the wonder of discovery, not when he gets into the teen years and he has formulated attitudes etc...

I want to share the excitement and wonder of riding through the mountain trails and have him learn what mother nature has provided for him to discover... but some states are taking that option away from me by outlawing all riders under 12.

With the handicap I have, I can't go for hikes or camp outs without some form of transportation aid... It is no wonder as parents we feel we are out of touch with our kids.. when the State is driving wedges between us.. even if they don't mean it to happen.

If I could just get my hands on a comprehensive training manual that borrows from the experience gained by instruction of many individuals, and lays out a course of action and a body of knowledge, I could teach him myself. In fact that is one reason I signed up for the course myself along with the mrs... so I can find out exactly what is being taught so I can compare notes with what I think are important skills for him to practice...

 

Im in total agreement with you.Besides being a State certified Instructor,I also instruct the ASI safety course and ALL Instructors MUST abide by the manufactures age/cc recommendations.I have a problem with this and dont instruct many youth thru this particular program,most my students in this course are 16yrs or older.ASI thinks that if your 12-15yr old youth does not properly fit on a 90cc ATV,than you should wait till he/she turns 16 yrs old to allow them to ride the bigger quads,I say BS!!!

ATVing IS a FAMILY sport and im NOT willing to wait for my kids to turn 16yrs old to enjoy something as pleasurable as ATVing just so I can keep the manufactures happy.I started my son Rocky out on his first 4 wheeler when he was 4 yrs old and he was as natural as they come.Today at the ripe age of 24,he knows the laws,respects property and the rights of others while operating.And you know what,I did'nt wait for him to turn 16 to start him out either.

Bill

 

Ok - then try this related problem.

My 14 year old daughter can out fly any student pilot I've ever come across. Because of her years and years of flying expereince with me and with flight instructors she can hold tolerances and perform to standards way beyond that required for commercial pilots.

She is as good in the clouds flying insturments as anyone else. Her knowledge of the rules and regulations are also better then most and she can score over 95% on any one of several different commercial pilot written exams.

Our family enjoys flying together to fly-in breakfasts and airshows. We are blessed having two airplanes and if she would be allowed to fly one of them - we would all be able to go together (the other airplane can carry 4 of the 5 of us) The way it is now - someone always gets left out of the fun.

We all know that accidents happen and they are unavoidable.

Why then - should she not be allowed to get her pilots license and be able to fly along side of me in the other airplane under my direct supervision?

No - I don't want to wait for her to age to the minumum of 17 years old for a license. Its not fair - she fits in the seat just like a 17 year old would. and we want to do this now and not wait 3 years just because of some dumb rule.

We paid a lot of money for this extra airplane and we shouldnt be restricted from family entertainment just because some government idiots who proly never rode in a airplane decided that you must be 17 to have a pilots license. We have a radio in both airplanes and I can tell her when she's doing something wrong.

If anyone knows of a state where my 14 year old can fly the airplane please let me know.

And P.S, there are hardly any fatailities where being 14 and the pilot of the airplane are a factor.

- - - - -
A simular delima - just food for thought

 

so its ok for your 14 year old daughter to fly a plane alone but my little brother cant ride a mini quad because he doesnt fit the age limit? Your being one big hippocrit here.

 

so its ok for your 14 year old daughter to fly a plane alone but my little brother cant ride a mini quad because he doesnt fit the age limit? Your being one big hippocrit here.[/quote]

LOL -
Its a rhetorical situation freind. Do the same standards apply between a youth operating a ATV and a youth operating a airplane? Can a parent over rule the authority to operate one or the other? What are the criteria between each case?

 

you can parent your children however you want. However you have no right to tell others how they should parent their own children.