If they aren't breaking any laws, then why not? Everytime you give an example it's some kid riding a 500lb machine. Where is your example of someone riding a 200lb machine. Where is your statistics that say it is more dangerous for an 8 year old to ride a 200lb 70cc machine versus a 200lb 90cc machine?

 

We need to work on accuracy skills here. I know I've mentioned 185 pound quads at least twice in the last 3 days as I looked it up on the polaris web site for the weight of a predator 50. I've also posted in one or two places that the exhaust pipes can be 400 degrees hot. Thats really hot! Where did I get that number? From my EGT sensor used to check the airplane exhausts mounted behind the muffler on my Honda Recon. Not exact science but a good representation.

Rap - these engine size requirements are not my rules. The laws that each state have passed are the rule for that state. Some states - like Washington for example do not have any ATV requirements. I don't have a problem specific problem with that - but does the lack of a specific law mean its a free for all? No.. failing to provide a reasonsably safe enviroment for children is a common law that causes parents problems every year.

But in many states their are minumum age laws and when a under age child gets hurt or killed - and the law has been violated - then that counts very badly for the sport and the rest of us (me and my family included) who have had the courage to make our children wait for the legal age.

And if 90% of the parents were being responsible with youth access and supervision of ATV's we wouldnt have a doubling of ATV accidents that prompted the CSPC to get involved.

If these things were not a safety problem then I know two kids who would still be alive today. They are dangerous. Parents need to be involved. I salute parents with the tether cords, throttle limiters and those that provide immediate supervision. But lets face it - after a couple of weeks and Jr hasn't wrapped it around a tree- the supervision falls way off. Its terribly difficult to provide that kind of focus for a long time when there are so many other demands on our time. Another issue - when you start a kid at 6 to ride - how many years are you going to be providing that direct supervision? It doesnt go away. Kids will always find that day when they are allowed to scoot off alone to start expermenting.

I think we are all tired of having to go over the same topics. This isn't playing chicken. I'm not going to blink and say its ok for someone to put a 3 year old on a quad. I might explain that its illegal, inappropriete or unsafe. What I don't understand is having to argue the same topic with the same people over and over again. Does arguing the rules and laws make you feel better or what? Its not going to change the laws.

Be a part of the solution - not part of the problem

 

Problem is that we can't seem to agree on what the solution is. I am sorry for the losses of those children. And I am sorry that you seem to feel responsible. I am sorry that is further proof that your course flat doesn't work.

I have held back more than you'll ever know regarding some of your posts. You continue to make me out to be the bad guy making references to not following the rules. Who's rules WhoDat? You mean an agreement made with the cpsc and manufacturers? How are they relevant to me? My own state does not recognize them on private property. Maybe your referring to YOUR rules?

I try to base my recommendations on the person's unique situation. You try to discourage people through your gloom and doom speeches and biased statistics.

I bought the quads to ride together. I do not have land around my house, we have to drive. My supervision will last until my kid gets a license and can go without me. By then she'll have had 10 years of experience. I think that's enough.

I am going to challenge you to be part of the solution WhoDat. I think telling people to check their local laws is sufficient instead of telling them their child will most likely be injured or killed cause they don't follow YOUR rules. Try helping them ride safely with the decisions they make instead of running them off. If you want to influence people, you can't do it from the top of a pedestal.

For the record, your puppy comments really don't help anyone.

 

thanks for deteriorating this thread to a pi$$ing contest. the beauty of freewill is that i can now put the clever "unsubscribe" feature to use.

Hooray for WA state, my border state. Maybe they have no laws because it hasn't reached the same epidemic proportion as other states. not to say it won't happen. And same here in BC, virtually no regulation, and definitely nothing that's enforced. BUT, always read into what's happening elsewhere as coming down the pipe for the rest of us.

 

Ok guys and gals, thanks to my new membership in Honda's Red rider club for ATV's, I did some checking into safety training. They are affiliated with several organizations, but I hit pay dirt on one site. Check out www.ATVSAFETY.ORG and hit the link to the info sheets. On that page, you will find several training related guides with titles like ATV riding tips, State Requirements at a glance, Rider training at a glance, Proper riding gear and industry a glance. All subjects worth reading if you are interested in training of the young, and not so young among us.

After bitching for weeks on this thread, I decided to educate myself first and take action to educate others instead of complaining about it. If anyone else comes across any other sources, let me know. I am looking at trying to get certified and put my money where my mouth is.

 

Fist off, I'm not stepping in between FsT4WrD and WhoDatInDaMud.
Although I don't have completely the same take on WhoDat as FsT4WrD does.


All the Laws and regulations come about because of a "few" stupid, ignorant, or just plain don't care type of people (including Parents). If you haven't seen a "parent" that has put there kid in danger (riding a ATV that is obviously to big for them, no proper riding gear, riding double, letting them ride like a maniac, etc, etc.) I would applaud those folks that ride in your area. Because I can say I've personally seen many of the instances I've listed, plus some. From the local riding areas here to the Dunes in Oregon. The problem is not isolated.
I have not been shy about my mouth when I thought it appropriate (and sometimes not [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]).

Some of it may just be that the parents really just don't understand the dangers, which IMO is ignorant.
Parents need to be educated first and/or along with their kids.

Somebody has to protect the kids, because they are just not experienced enough or mentally able to understand. Kids just want to ride, they want to ride fast, ride anything they can get on, and want to ride any and everywhere.

Again, I don't agree with all the rules and laws out there, but they are there for a reason and at least they are something. People shouldn't complain if they don't try to be part of the process. I would rather have kids over-protected that under-protected.

ATTA BOY to Dragginbutt, keep it up my friend.


Here is the biggest reason this issue is so big (as quoted below).
Enough for now, or I'll ramble on. Which I can do pretty good when I'm tired (even better when I 'm not, LOL)
What time is it anyway, yikes [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Sorry, no spell or grammer check tonight, this morning, whenever........

 

I can only speak for my riding area, but I am proud to say for the little tykes between 6-10 years of age that I have not seen one without a helmet or supervision in years. I think awareness is growing.

Older children are a different story but I'd say 80% of them at least wear a helmet. This is compared to about 20% 15 years ago. Heck, I've even started wearing one. There was I time I swore that would never happen.

Here in the REAL WORLD, the regs aren't being followed and the results on these safety courses are questionable at best. We don't need new uneforceable laws, we need to change the way we think and influence others.

I think everyone on here believes education is good, including myself. I think dealers should provide information on safety. I think manufacturers should give incentives for the purchase of safety equipment. I think if you want to make a difference, create a riders club and encourage newbies to join and ride with you. See if you can work with local dealers to set dates and events and become an example and a teacher. That's how you make a difference.

If anything, I think the gov should restrict the weight of the machine based on age. Not based on cc's. But then I think they should butt out. jmo.

 

'legs, I think you are right on, but as I have said before, I believe the BEST time for the kids to learn the proper fundamentals is when they are young, and right now, programs for kids under 12 are hit and miss, with some states outlawing them altogether. By the time a kid is 12, they have already formulated a lot of opinions and are not as receptive to "rules". Plus, parents tend to start letting 12 year olds have a little more rope than when they were younger. It doesn't mean they are bad parents, but.. well I think you know what I am talking about...

I would like to see a little more emphasis be placed on the younger set from a training perspective... but like you said, that is one man's opinion.

I would like to draw your attention to some of teh things that some of the bigger compaies are doing to increase their visibility and support to the training programs. I was quite surprised about the level of support that Honda is putting into it's ATV programs. Not only have they partnered with several safety and environmental organizations, they are also setting up and working with local chapters that promoste the same ideals as you mentioned, as well as assisting with working with the government representatives to expand various aspects of our riding sports.

Now before i sound like an advertizement for Honda, let me preface that with the fact that I have 4, and soon to be 5 Yamahas in my garage... but I recently purchased a Rubicon, and that got me involved with Honda's rider's club.

I will say to those that think that ne person can't make a difference. well one can...if it is you.. and if you surround yourself with like minded souls, and join together in addressing the many issues, you can make a difference.

I just joined a local riding club when I found out that they are providing training to novices... I am also pursuing certifications and plan to volunteer my time to do the same. If that doesn' tsit well, maybe you can attend local meetings with the local authorities and le tthem know your concerns. Or maybe just write a note to your local representatives... every bit helps...

 

Likes2ride, not sure if your following this post still or not. I'm not sure but I think a Eton 70 and a Eton 90 are the same frame etc. just different cc's. I might be wrong, you could do a search here or on the other forums. I am sure I've seen some posts about the subject. Anyway you could start him out with the 70 and then later change the cylinder and piston to a 90. You could change the 50 to a 70 also.

 

Can't say for the eton, but in some cases, not only the motor changes, but tires and wheels are sometimes bigger in the bigger models and you might gain a couple of gears. At least the Yamaha is that way... Same frame, but different wheel/tire, and you get gears on the 80.