Dragginbutt,

I agree, but as you and quaduck have way more experience than I, how and where do we start. Writing letters to our senators doest do the trick and our opposition has a head start. I like being the underdog (well, dont like it but can perfrom well in that roll).
what are your ideas in a nutshell to get it started or shall I say more momentum. Common sense has to start taking over here. I own a small business and do understand the mechanics.

 

trust me, you may not be Henny Penny and the sky may not be falling, but it sure is looking closer these days!!! and if no one believes that these things can't happen just look at 3 wheelers. talk about history repeating! and there are probably thousands more youth quads out there than there ever was 3 wheelers. you're right, it is up to us as riders and parents to ban together and try to make it known that because of the few many must suffer. IT'S JUST SO AGGRAVATING!!!

 

Please don't forget the Japanese have alot to lose if the Chinese get going strong. Japanese lobbyists have the same money as environmentalists.

 

That 90cc - 16 year old rule is ridiculously arbitrary. It's about time parents take some responsibility of matching a quad (or any other mechanical device) to their kids abilities. I've seen quite a few 13-16 year olds compete and win in sanctioned 400 and 450 class races, while there are 17+ year olds getting hurt on 50's and 90's with poor ability or doing stupid tricks. Where I'm from, given an equal amout of skateboards and atvs, far more kids will go to the hospital due to skateboard injuries than atv's. Where does it end...? Let's put arbitrary age limits on skates, scooters, bicycles, trampolines, etc., and don't get me started on dirtbikes. If a parent has any doubt on their childs ability to handle any piece of equipment, don't buy it. Or if their kid has to have a machine, start them out on one of those Walmart electric deals and gradually let them work their way up from there. Age to cc's should be a stern recommendation based on both child development science and statistics. It's unfortunate that these "legal" determinations are made by company lawyers to cover liability issues. It should not be law. IMO

 

i know what you're saying mrdirt. alot of responsibilty should go to parents, its just that sometimes that and commonsense don't go hand in hand. IMO, purchasing a quad or any bike for a young or new rider should depend on their abilities and should be on an individual bases. also, as far as the company lawyers making the rules up to save their butts, well the CPSC has far more to do with this than the lawyers. the manufacturers have agreed to alot with the gov't so that they can still sell quads of any size, let alone youth models.
yea, i know what you mean as far as other injuries for other sports. i don't know of any sport or physical activity that doesn't involve injury of one sort or another.

 

Let me begin today's lesson with a bit of history... The guidelines we are now discussing, were not something that the CPSC dreamed up... fact be known, they didn't want any rules.... The guidelines as we know them were drawn up and agreed upon by the manufacturers, and forced upon the CPSC to administer. Their lifetime has come to an end, and now the manufacturers are voluntarily adhering to them. That is why the second tier machines get away with not complying with them.

At the time, given the nature of what they were working with, the guidelines probably made a lot of sense. They were a very good stab at dealing with the issues as they applied to the machines at that time. However, changes in technology have made them a little out dated from a technology standpoint. BUT, remember the other part of the equation deals with the mental state of the "Typical" child. (I am not talking about the superstars of tomorrow here). Even though the technology has moved forward, the natural process of evolution doesn't keep pace... In that respect, the guidelines do set some pretty good standards from a purely mental state frame of reference.

This wasn't a problem 20 years ago. But today, because of the technology improvements in the bikes themselves, it is becoming clear that they are out of sync. What I have proposed, is that an official panel of experts, NOT tied to the industry, or the radical environmental lobby, take a hard look at the guidelines and propose changes that allow for the typical child's mental capacity to make rational decisions in emergency situations, and provide some meaningful way for children to progress to larger machines via some form of ability test. Secondly, I'd like to see one standard, instead of the piece meal way the states are running their own programs.

Our biggest challenge is to convince the lawmakers to give us, the enthusiasts a chance to be heard, and to make viable and sweeping changes in the way the sport is administerred, and see what effect can be accomplished rather than taking the radical approach of elimination of it altogether.

After all, we are not fully responsible for the mess we have.. the confusion in the way the programs are administered, interpreted and enforced is just as much at fault as the wild hooligans who keep giving us all the black eye.

Someone asked what do we do to make things better.... Well, there are national organisations that are fighting for our rights. We need to add our voice to their numbers. There are local riding clubs available that can join their combined voices to the cause as well on a local basis. Keeping informed on the local issues, and upchanneling them to the national organizations is another step... and joining with enthusiasts of other sports that are experienceing the same issues with access etc. In short, support the organized programs where they exist, and start new ones where they don't.

All of this takes time.... which is precious to many... so it comes down to just how much we are willing to do to keep what we have...

Lastly, I think much of our problems stem from not having a central depository of information for educating parents, riders etc. I have proposed a seperate category be added to the owners of this list that concentrates on this subject and even volunteered to help moderate.. but after 2 weeks, I have not had a response.... If you think it is a good idea, let them know.

 

One thing I'd like to add is that 20 years ago a big QUAD OR THREE wheeler was a 250. In fact most adults were not riding a 250, more like 90, 110, 185, and 200cc machines. KIds units were 50 and 70cc's. A lot has changed since the cpsc guidlines came out and I think that no matter what happens there will always be disappointed people with the results. I recently was discussing this with an ex ORV officer who was doing orv work from the 70's thrugh the 80's and he actually would patrol with a 200. If the quads of today were available in the mid 80s then I think you would see guidlines closer to something like this;
5-7 0 to 50cc
8-9 50 to 90cc
10-12 90 to125cc
12-14 125 to 200cc
14-16 200 to 300cc
Also make it mandatory for all ages to pass a course designed for the cc range that he or she rides That was even fo us adults.
I am sure that a lot of you won't agree with this or my opinion on the matter but its just that, my two cents[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

I too,
am a licensed ORV DNR safety instructor for the state of Michigan..I happen to be one that DISAGREE'S [for the most part] the CPSC age/cc guidelines..Which are as follows,

Ages 6-11--can operate UNDER 70cc
Ages 12-15--can operate not over 90cc

Im 48 yrs old,have a son 24 and a daughter that is 18..BOTH started riding ATVs at the age of 4 yrs old..My son took to the sport really fast and was a very good rider..I spent MUCH time with BOTH kids in the safe/responsable use of ATVs..NEVER had a single accident in all the years of riding as a family..

For the most case,these age/cc guidelines are REDICULES..Kids today are BIGGER than when I was growing up,they are better educated,and they learn things at a faster rate.To put a properly trained 14yr old kid that is 5ft 8 inches tall,and weighs 180lbs on a 90cc ATV is a recipe for disaster..

In Michigan,we do NOT have to abide to the CPSC age/cc guidelines..Once your youth is certified in his ORV sport,and they are under the direct visual supervision of an adult while operating[until 16yrs old],they can ride any size ATV.

I STRESS to the PARENTS and riders in EVERY ATV safety class that I instruct on how IMPORTANT it is to make sure the kid fits the machine properly,has full riding gear,and does not operate outside of their own personal limitations or the quads capabilities..Most accidents happen because riders did'nt follow the above guidlines..I also tell my parents that if they choose to buy an ATV that is too BIG for their youth and that youth becomes INJURED as a result of their poor decision to properly size/fit their kid,that THEY will be held accountable for this injury in a court of law..We have child endangerment laws in Michigan to protect out youth from stupid mistakes like this..

 

Excellent post, muddy. Thank you.

Can you expand on a couple of areas? When you say that a youth is certified in his ORV sport, What does it take to get that certification? Are there age/cc limits used when testing? In other words, if you are planning on having your 14 year old ride a 250cc bike, does he test on that bike or have to use a 90cc machine?

If your 6 year old certifies on a 50cc, do they ever have to get re-certified as they get older and move up?

Do you know if Mich. certification will transfer for visits to other (stricter) states? I'm thinking specifically of Wis. which changed their rules last year.

Thanks,

Jaybee

 

JAYBEE,
Well,the major manufactures of ATVs will pay the OWNER of a brand new quad a 100 dollar incentive to take a free 4 hr ORV safety education class,and once completed,the instructor faxes in the completed worksheet to the ASI [ATV Safety Institute]so the owner can be paid.If I instruct this class,than I MUST adhere to the age/cc guidelines set forth by the CPSC.

Now in Michigan,our ORV laws say that ALL youth under the age of 16 MUST be ORV certified BEFORE they can operate any type of ORV,and MOST youth between the ages of 6-15 are NOT riding a quad within the CPSC guidlines,so that means that they cannot take the free ASI safety course..

In or around 2000,in conjuntion with the Mich Dept of Education,we put together an ORV safety education course,where as,if your youth FITS and can properly operate the ORV they bring to our State certified ORV safety education class,we WILL certify them on that ATV and they can ride it on our trails.I especailly like this course alot..I have taught 14yr old kids in the ASI course that had no place riding such a small ATV like a 90cc.

It would depend on local State laws if our Mich certification is valid in another State,but in most cases,yes.