whodat,
you have a Pitts!!!!!! That is my favorite. Never flown one but they are sweeeeeet. I havent flown for a lot of years but did a fair amount while living in Las Vegas. flew rotary filming off road races, until I crashed anyway. You think its bad dumping a quad just wait'll you fall out of the sky from 2500 ft in a Hughes 300 bubble. THAT hurts!!!!

 

Yup - I've been blessed with possibly the best toy every - Pitts S1C 160hp, smoke,inverts - the works - its in very good condition. We have a fully restored 54 Tripacer PA-22-135 also. CPMEL-I The wife allowed me the Pitts for my quiting smoking. Good trade....
Crash a hughes 300? As we say in skydiving - Safety tip - don't do that.
Im still scheduling surgerys to repair the broken bones from backflipping the quad two years ago so I'll pass on anything worse - thanks.
see my flight page link

FLightPage

 

Todd'... the reason the kid broke his leg is simple.. he has ridden either a bicycle or a dirt bike previously, and when the three wheeler started to become unstable, he put his foot out and ran over it... That is the numero uno reason they were banned... The parent should have burned it long ago.... No amount of safety gear would have prevented it. Boots would have just applied pressure to his knee instead of a leg bone.. and believe me, I am a walking.. or should I say limping with a cane proof that it would have been better to break the leg bone, than rip an ACL or worse.

I believe you when you say your son is big for his age. Mine is too. 5.2" now, 105 pounds, 9 years old. I bought him a mini, albiet an 80 instead of the mandatory 50.. and he hasn't been ready for it emotionally. You got lucky.. but that doesn't mean everyone will, or that it is right. Check your local laws for that... WIth his age versus CC, I can almost guarantee he didn't have a training course. I hope he can get one some day. It will make anyone, no matter how long they have ridden, a better rider. You can learn something too.

My question to you is this... how would he react in an emergency situation where a split second decision is required. If you have trail conditions where you might have two way traffic on a narrow trail.. you had better find out how he reacts before he gets into a situation and you find out too late.

That really has nothing to do with size of the machine... just an honest piece of advice.

It is very imprtant, that the children are comfortable on their machine. They need to be familiar with all the controls, and they need to practice emergency manuvers as well. To include learning to let go of the throttle when under stress. Or how to hit the kill switch if the trottle sticks. Make sure he learns the proper way to shift his body weight on side hills, and how to cross obsticles etc. But mostly, teach him to take it easy and enjoy the ride, and act responsibly.. so he can live to enjoy riding another day.

I recommend to all parents, that they bone up on riding material.. and course content. You can find the curriculum of several courses online.. and tailor your teaching to match that...

Good luck and keep all four wheels on the ground..

Dragginbutt

 

Also remember that you can set the throttle limiter on most (if not all?) youth ATVs. I can limit my kid's ATV to a top speed less than a 50cc machine with the throttle screw.

Thanks DB, good advice. I don't know if I'm lucky? I believe parents need to spend ALL OF the time with their kids when riding, no exceptions. My son has seen and rode with me on streetbikes, dirtbikes (watched) and boats his whole life. He even drives my 17' ski boat quite well. I've never done anything crazy or nuts when he's been with me. Now when he's not with me and I'm with friends, that's another story. I've broke a leg on my streetbike (car running into me) and I've taken the end of my finger off (sewn back on) on a dirtbike when I was 15 years old. The last thing I want is for my beloved 7 (almost 8) year old son, the pride of my life, to be in a serious accident. I would consider that my fault if that happens. I know he emulates and watches me at all times. I will not give him a reason to hurt himself.

Riding is fun and a great family bonding activity. We were riding yersterday. We were going thru some tough trails and my son felt very good for conquering them. I would get off my quad in the tougher parts and stand on the low side of the hill as he negotiated the tough parts. It was so cool to see his face (mostly eyes through the helmet) after getting by the tough parts while using his throttle and brakes perfect. He is a quick learner and he respects his machine. I had to talk him into a few tough segments and he did great. I was very proud of him. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

I wouldn't be suprised if these regulations are also pushed by major Japenese MC manufacturers and/or domestic dealers for profit as well? If they can get you to buy a new quad every year or 2, they make a lot more money compared to every 3-4 years. Sit on a 70cc or 90cc quad then sit on the Yamoto 150. There is a difference but not a exreme difference in size. Now going from a 50cc quad to a Yamoto 150 is a difference. A 50cc quad would already be too small in size for my son. It's not like going from a Raptor 80 to a 350. These 150's are a mid level youth ATV in my mind. I would think a 250cc ATV would be a high level youth ATV (14 years+) but these regulations wouldn't even consider that. Especially for a 12-15 year old. The 70 - 90cc quad will look stupid and it'll be dangerous for a 14 year old boy who's 5'6" or taller. Yes, kids are this big at that age these days. This isn't the 1930's.... Just take a female adult around that same size and put her on a 70cc quad. It looks stupid and it's dangerous. The rider is too big while they try to a ride a machine like they're a circus clown. Just think about it if you haven't seen it yet, I have...Parents buy these machines for their kids and they either don't ride themselves or they don't spend time riding with their kid(s). A full grown adult can get maimed or killed on a 50cc quad, motorcycle or pocket bike for that matter. I believe rules like this are created because of bad parents? Not all of the time but most of the time I would bet? MOST PARENTS ARE LAZY AND THEY'RE NOT INVOLVED ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY RIDE WITH THEIR KIDS AND DEMONSTRATE PROPER TECHNIQUE AND SAFETY. You don't buy your 8-10 year old a quad or dirtbike and send him/her off into some trails while you sit back at your truck and smoke a cigeratte and yap on the cell phone. God damn, you're letting your kid ride around on a motorized vehicle with no adult supervision! If he/she gets hurt, it's YOUR FAULT IDIOT! This isn't soccer, baseball, etc where you drop your kid off at the ballfield and you take off to the local tavern or mall. You can't send your kid off on their own on a motorized vehicle. That's STUPID and bad parenting. BE RESPOSNIBLE and stop blaming kids when they get hurt when they didn't have YOUR ADULT supervision. I don't care if you live in a area where your kids can ride from the garage, don't let them! Don't even let them ride alone in your yard where you can see them from the house. If you can't supervise 100%, 100% of the time then don't let them ride. No wonder these regulations come about....

My kid does have a bend in his elbows when he rides his quad. Yes, he is tall for his age. I believe he's 5'2" now? He's already taller than his mother. So he appears to ergonomically fit on this machine and he has demonstrated that he can ride it safely.

 

To highlight the difference in opinions on state laws and regulations -

Here in MN you would have been arrested and your boat impounded for allowing a 7 year old to touch the controls of your boat.

Thanks in part to the "momentary distraction" of one kids parent whilst their 9 year old drove a 150hp runabout over the top of a pontoon boat killing the occupants thereof.

Good law - Bad law? I quess it depends on which boat your loved ones were on.

 

So what is the diff between one of those ultra fast custom minis and a kid who ends up on a yamatto 150 slug? This is where cpsc is guidlines are wrong. A big kid operating a 150 or 110 is realisticlly safer than a modded 400ex frame with a built cr 80 motor, and yes I do realize that most kids on the 80 motored bike are racing with it and they know what they are doing usually. I think that just because most of us as parents think are kids are ready doesn't mean that they really are. In fact a lot of it is either machoisim or living our dreams through our little ones.
I personally don't want to see my kids get hurt do to someone elses lack of judgment. The only way to fix the problem is to pass an orv class WITH the orv that they will be riding. Okay everyone, you can go ahead and jump all over me now[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] BTW I am seriously considering taking away my daughters 80 and going back to a 50 or even just stop her from riding all together, as she hasn't been making a lot of wise decisions as of late. My son when riding is another story and is only 11 months older. So same parents same upbringing and two different attitudes and styles. One size won't fit us all.

 

That is a terrible accident and no child should be operating a boat in a busy waterway. That's just plain STUPID and you know that. My son has only operated my boat in wide open waterways with no other boats or shoreline closer than 100 yards at various times. I live in the Seattle, WA area where we have lakes and the Puget Sound. I live 4 blocks east of LK Washington which feeds into the Puget Sound. We have maybe the vastest fresh waterways within any metropolitan area of the US? I would NEVER let my kid drive my boat by the shore or by the launch area. Running a boat up onto pontoon means he was close to shore. PARENT'S FAULT AGAIN! Plus my kid cruises the boat at 15-25mph tops. He just breaks the plain and goes in a straight line while I sit next to him 18 inches away. My boat will do 60mph with my stainless steel speed prop. The throttle is very hard to push as well. If he goes any faster that I want him to I just reach over and pull up on the throttle. I have a split hull (half V/half flat at rear) boat that has very good stability on the water. It's an old 1989 Seaswirl Spyder.

It's all relative to HOW MUCH the parent SUPERVISES their kid(s). Some children should never operate any kind of motorized vehicle until their 14 or older... I bet the parent of this 9 year old was hanging out in the back of the boat drinking a cold one? He/she probably figured they have a new water chaufer for cocktail sunsets? LAZY PARENTS! There have been WAY MORE adult boating accidents than child ones as you can imagine. The worst ones are usually caused while the operator was intoxicated. We have something called Seafair up here in Seattle every August like I believe you do in Minnesota on the Great Lakes. Hydroplanes, Blue Angels, etc. Every year somebody or multiple people are killed or maimed out by the logboom. It seems to always be a drunk guy getting chewed up by a prop while the driver is drunk. Probably trying to take off to see a bead show? Drinking and operating ORVs, boats, etc has to be the STUPIDEST Jethro thing that hinders our motorized recreation.

It doesn' matter if I'm responsible with my kid around recreational vehicles. It's the other IDTIOT parents that ruin it for people like us!

 

Whole heartedly agree with the parental responsibilty argument. Unfortunately, you can't legislate being stupid... there is not test you have to take before you are allowed to procreate...

I know we all bash the CPSC guidleines, and just about everyone I talk to thinks they need some overhauling... so why hasn't it been done? Does it take an act of congress to pull this off? The big risk is that we lose even more... It could have a very negative result based on injury stats... Certainly, some may argue that stricter controls are necessary.. I could support enforcement of something regarding parental presence, but that takes away rights of the states to control their local laws... So we have a conundrum.

If we had no CPSC, what would be a reasonable answer to reduce the number of injured youths? Mandatory training?, Age restrictions? Size limitations... how do you measure each against the other and take into consideration a child's size etc.?

These are real and difficult issues that need to be addressed and weighed. The easy way out is to ban them altogether.. or at least under 16 as some have proposed.

I personally think the age/size deal is a starting place, but there needs to be a mechanism built in to allow a child to demonstrate a certain level of skill that allows them to move up a class. I also think that if states are going to mandate training, they need to provide the necessary funding to make it happen. I think tere are enough child endangerment laws out there, but just voluntarily following the CPSC is not enforceble in a court of law. There needs to be more meat if that is going to have any bearing in court.

 

DB help me out on this, but from what I remember the cpsc guidelines were established by the manufacturers to protect themselves from the idiots that put their child on too big of a quad. It was in response to the demise of the 3 wheeler. Which had a problem similar to the same thing that is going on now with quads. If there was no cpsc there would probubly not be any quads being made. Definitely would not be any youth quads being made. It would not be financially profitable with all the lawsuits that would be going on.

 

You are correct. The manufacturers at the time proposed the guidelines and the CPSC was tasked to administer and monitor them. These also had a drop dead date... which was passed years ago. Right now, they are voluntarily following them. However, many gray market machine makers are not. Which may be contributing to the increased injuries. Clearly, the people selling them on every street corner are not as focused on the safety issues as the legitimate dealers. Whether that is because they don't see themselves in the market in a year or two is unknown. Notice also that I said "May" be a contributing factor. Another one is clearly speed... in our zest to go faster and farther and our competition fever, we have shot ourselves in the foot. Mini's should be left to instructional and recreational riding... Racing at this age should be secondary... JMHO

On one hand, I welcome the presence of these gray market machines, but in this regard (following the guidelines), I find their ignorance a little distressing. Ultimately, I think their inclusion in supporting some form of measures that effectively reduce the injury numbers will be needed to turn this train... without it, we are bound to fail.

This is not to say that I believe in it's present form, the CPSC guidelines are the panecea of enlightenment... or the end all solution. I do however think that it represents a good starting place. I am not sure I could design a better starting point from scratch.. Obviously a great deal of thought went into it's creation... but it has not managed to keep pace with today's machines and environment... and I believe some sort of evolutionary process should be initiated.