Wiring SunL 110 no spark??
#1
08-01-2012, 06:34 PM
Wiring SunL 110 no spark??
I have a 110 SunL 2004 4-stroke that doesn't get spark. I have taken the remote start and siren off and the tether kill switch. The brake light was off when I bought it. When I unhooked the black box that goes to the remote, I didn't hook that to anything - just left it open. I have the 5 pin cdi, what and how should I check this? Also, the kill tether on the back is left open where I unhooked it... is that right or did I go about that all wrong? Thanks! 
#2
08-02-2012, 11:01 PM
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I have a 110 SunL 2004 4-stroke that doesn't get spark. I have taken the remote start and siren off and the tether kill switch. The brake light was off when I bought it. When I unhooked the black box that goes to the remote, I didn't hook that to anything - just left it open. I have the 5 pin cdi, what and how should I check this? Also, the kill tether on the back is left open where I unhooked it... is that right or did I go about that all wrong? Thanks!
Here is the generic 5 pin CDI test procedure:
Is this a picture of your CDI?
Assuming the answer is yes, the first thing to do is eliminate all kill switches and kill switch wiring:
Method 1) Unplug the CDI and remove the kill switch pin in the CDI connector on the wiring harness. The pin is held in with a spring tab on the pin itself. You'll have to probe into the connector and push this tab in order to extract the pin. Plug the CDI back in (kill switch wire dangling) and see if you have spark.
Method 2) Unplug the CDI. Turn on the ignition switch and set all kill switches to the run position. Use a meter to measure resistance in of the kill switch pin in the wiring harness connector to engine/frame ground. If the resistance is infinite on the 200K ohm scale then your kill switches/kill switch wiring are OK. If you measure zero ohms then you have a kill switch/wiring issue.
The other inputs your CDI needs to make spark are AC Ignition Power, and the Trigger signal. Do the following:
1) Unplug the CDI. In the wiring connector measure the resistance of the AC Ignition Power pin to the Ground pin. You should see 400 ohms or so. What do you measure?
2) Measure the resistance of the Timing/trigger pin to the ground pin. You should measure 150 ohms or so. What do you measure?
3) Leave the CDI unplugged. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 100 volt scale. Measure the voltage on the AC Ignition Power pin to the ground pin while cranking the engine. You should see 40 to 80 volts AC while the engine is cranking. What do you measure?
4) Set your meter to measure AC volts on the lowest scale you have. Ideally this would be 2 volts but many meters don't go down this low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. Measure the voltage on the Timing Trigger pin to the Ground pin while cranking the engine. You should 0.2 t0 0.4 volts AC. What do you measure?
Now for measuring the output side of the CDI:
A) Leave the CDI unplugged. In the CDI wiring connector measure the resistance of the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin. You should measure less than 1 ohm (but not zero ohms). What do you measure?
B) Plug the CDI back in. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 20 volt scale. Set all kill switches to the run position. Crank the engine while measuring the voltage on the Igntition Coil pin to ground. Poke through the insulation of the wire if you can't probe the connector.
Caution: There should be moderately high voltage spikes on this wire. Make sure your fingers are not part of the circuitry. Don't touch the probe lead tips while doing this test.
What you should see is a lot of random numbers with lots of zero values as well. This is because the meter may catch all or part of the spark event voltage, with a lot of nothing in between. Describe what you see.
Note: Using a meter to measure this point produces highly variable results depending on the meter. What you really need is an oscilloscope, but most always a meter is all that is available. We have to do the best we can with what's available. Describe the meter results as accurately as you can - there is information there to chew on....
Assuming the answer is yes, the first thing to do is eliminate all kill switches and kill switch wiring:
Method 1) Unplug the CDI and remove the kill switch pin in the CDI connector on the wiring harness. The pin is held in with a spring tab on the pin itself. You'll have to probe into the connector and push this tab in order to extract the pin. Plug the CDI back in (kill switch wire dangling) and see if you have spark.
Method 2) Unplug the CDI. Turn on the ignition switch and set all kill switches to the run position. Use a meter to measure resistance in of the kill switch pin in the wiring harness connector to engine/frame ground. If the resistance is infinite on the 200K ohm scale then your kill switches/kill switch wiring are OK. If you measure zero ohms then you have a kill switch/wiring issue.
The other inputs your CDI needs to make spark are AC Ignition Power, and the Trigger signal. Do the following:
1) Unplug the CDI. In the wiring connector measure the resistance of the AC Ignition Power pin to the Ground pin. You should see 400 ohms or so. What do you measure?
2) Measure the resistance of the Timing/trigger pin to the ground pin. You should measure 150 ohms or so. What do you measure?
3) Leave the CDI unplugged. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 100 volt scale. Measure the voltage on the AC Ignition Power pin to the ground pin while cranking the engine. You should see 40 to 80 volts AC while the engine is cranking. What do you measure?
4) Set your meter to measure AC volts on the lowest scale you have. Ideally this would be 2 volts but many meters don't go down this low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. Measure the voltage on the Timing Trigger pin to the Ground pin while cranking the engine. You should 0.2 t0 0.4 volts AC. What do you measure?
Now for measuring the output side of the CDI:
A) Leave the CDI unplugged. In the CDI wiring connector measure the resistance of the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin. You should measure less than 1 ohm (but not zero ohms). What do you measure?
B) Plug the CDI back in. Set your meter to measure AC volts on the 20 volt scale. Set all kill switches to the run position. Crank the engine while measuring the voltage on the Igntition Coil pin to ground. Poke through the insulation of the wire if you can't probe the connector.
Caution: There should be moderately high voltage spikes on this wire. Make sure your fingers are not part of the circuitry. Don't touch the probe lead tips while doing this test.
What you should see is a lot of random numbers with lots of zero values as well. This is because the meter may catch all or part of the spark event voltage, with a lot of nothing in between. Describe what you see.
Note: Using a meter to measure this point produces highly variable results depending on the meter. What you really need is an oscilloscope, but most always a meter is all that is available. We have to do the best we can with what's available. Describe the meter results as accurately as you can - there is information there to chew on....
#3
08-06-2012, 06:52 PM
#4
08-06-2012, 07:38 PM
#5
08-07-2012, 12:18 AM
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So redo this measurement with great care, and see my next post coming up about redoing some more tests that conflict...
#6
08-07-2012, 12:27 AM
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#4) This cannot be. You measured 1 ohm to ground here in your previous post. You cannot have 0.39 volts and 1 ohm to ground. Ohms law states that an average of 0.39 amps would be flowing out of your teeny tiny trigger coil. This is simply and ridiculously impossible. Please redo this test again (and the test in my previous post). Something is way wrong with your data which needs to get fixed
.#A) Fine
#B) Uh Oh... AC voltage is measured in *volts*, not ohms... You've set your meter wrong. Please redo this measuremnt too...
. 400 to 900 *anything* makes no sense for this measurement.
#7
08-08-2012, 01:11 AM
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#8
08-08-2012, 10:58 PM
Great News!!
I changed the stator off of another atv, and it started right up! But, kill switch didn't work, key off didn't work, unplugged the inline fuse, didn't work, and finally the blue white wire to the timing trigger cdi/stator shut it off! will need to know how to get a kill switch to work now, but it sounded perfect, didn't ride it because I need to get a new housing gasket. Just wanted to make sure I was right that the stator was burned up... litteraly! Black and charred (smelt like it to). Thank you for all of your help, once I figure out the kill switch on this and get that gasket on my son's atv is ready!
#9
08-08-2012, 11:27 PM
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The way the kill switch wiring works is you have from one to several switches all wired in parallel (side by side) such that any one of them can short the kill switch line to ground. Or in other words, *all* the kill switches must be in the "run" position (open - or not shorted) in order to get spark.
Some possible kill switches are:
1) One half of the two section ignition switch
2) The left handlebar kill switch
3) The Tether Pull Cord kill switch
4) The remote control module (actually in internal transistor switch - but still a switch none the less)
Because you had two switches that didn't work that suggests that the problem is near the CDI kill switch wire that all the kill switches feed. Inspect that connection at the CDI very carefully.
Caution: There is a likely possibility of high voltage on the kill switch wire(s) whenever the engine is turning (running or cranking). So treat this wire node with respect unless the engine is stopped. Keep you fingers out of the path.
Unplug your CDI and use your meter to measure the resistance of the kill switch wire in the harness to the ground wire in the harness. Use the 100K ohm scale (100,000 ohms). This line should measure open (same as when the meter leads are disconnected) when all the kill switches are in the "run" position, and zero ohms when *any* kill switch is activated.
Remember that on AC powered ignition systems like yours, the ignition system runs on AC generated by a turning engine. Therefore removing the 12 volts - like taking out the battery, or removing the fuse, will *not* shut off the engine. That's why kill switch circuitry came into being...
I'm worried about your burned up coil in the stator. Don't burn up your new one too.... First make sure your fuse is no more than 7 Amps. Check to see if your charging system is working too. Start up the quad, measure the DC voltage right on the battery terminals at medium fast speed with the headlights off. You should read 13.5 volts DC to 14.5 volts DC. If your voltage regulator is shorted then current will flow backwards through the regulator out of your battery into the stator. That's a lot of current and a lot of power. Your new stator could get destroyed the same as the other in a few minutes...
Some possible kill switches are:
1) One half of the two section ignition switch
2) The left handlebar kill switch
3) The Tether Pull Cord kill switch
4) The remote control module (actually in internal transistor switch - but still a switch none the less)
Because you had two switches that didn't work that suggests that the problem is near the CDI kill switch wire that all the kill switches feed. Inspect that connection at the CDI very carefully.
Caution: There is a likely possibility of high voltage on the kill switch wire(s) whenever the engine is turning (running or cranking). So treat this wire node with respect unless the engine is stopped. Keep you fingers out of the path.
Unplug your CDI and use your meter to measure the resistance of the kill switch wire in the harness to the ground wire in the harness. Use the 100K ohm scale (100,000 ohms). This line should measure open (same as when the meter leads are disconnected) when all the kill switches are in the "run" position, and zero ohms when *any* kill switch is activated.
Remember that on AC powered ignition systems like yours, the ignition system runs on AC generated by a turning engine. Therefore removing the 12 volts - like taking out the battery, or removing the fuse, will *not* shut off the engine. That's why kill switch circuitry came into being...
I'm worried about your burned up coil in the stator. Don't burn up your new one too.... First make sure your fuse is no more than 7 Amps. Check to see if your charging system is working too. Start up the quad, measure the DC voltage right on the battery terminals at medium fast speed with the headlights off. You should read 13.5 volts DC to 14.5 volts DC. If your voltage regulator is shorted then current will flow backwards through the regulator out of your battery into the stator. That's a lot of current and a lot of power. Your new stator could get destroyed the same as the other in a few minutes...
I changed the stator off of another atv, and it started right up! But, kill switch didn't work, key off didn't work, unplugged the inline fuse, didn't work, and finally the blue white wire to the timing trigger cdi/stator shut it off! will need to know how to get a kill switch to work now, but it sounded perfect, didn't ride it because I need to get a new housing gasket. Just wanted to make sure I was right that the stator was burned up... litteraly! Black and charred (smelt like it to). Thank you for all of your help, once I figure out the kill switch on this and get that gasket on my son's atv is ready!
#10
08-08-2012, 11:38 PM