Any way you can tell ?
Jul 28, 2002 | 11:11 PM
#31
Pro Rider
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
Hmm.. Well, the only place I compared the two was at the sand dunes and the one with Arvins was brand new (although mine was only a week old)...
Just felt like, on the sand, that the Arvins danced around a bit more. May be different on the trail though.
We've also got a Speed that's been converted to the Moto front and rear (by someone else). The Moto control arms have quite a bit of slop in them at the attach points to the frame - does that sound typical of the ones you've dealt with?? The control arms do move freely, but there's enough slop in there to make front end setting changes on the fly-- not good.... Haven't investigated further yet.
Also, lately I've noticed that my idle speed on my cannibal keeps getting lower and lower... Haven't adjusted it yet, but it does make me curious that this setting is changing on it's own. Seems like I read somewhere that was a sign of throttle body wear.
It also seems like I read somewhere in C-Dale's stuff that the throttle body shaft is supported on bearings, which should make the assembly last a very long time. Any thoughts? I haven't had time to investigate this one myself yet either.
Just felt like, on the sand, that the Arvins danced around a bit more. May be different on the trail though.
We've also got a Speed that's been converted to the Moto front and rear (by someone else). The Moto control arms have quite a bit of slop in them at the attach points to the frame - does that sound typical of the ones you've dealt with?? The control arms do move freely, but there's enough slop in there to make front end setting changes on the fly-- not good.... Haven't investigated further yet.
Also, lately I've noticed that my idle speed on my cannibal keeps getting lower and lower... Haven't adjusted it yet, but it does make me curious that this setting is changing on it's own. Seems like I read somewhere that was a sign of throttle body wear.
It also seems like I read somewhere in C-Dale's stuff that the throttle body shaft is supported on bearings, which should make the assembly last a very long time. Any thoughts? I haven't had time to investigate this one myself yet either.
Jul 29, 2002 | 02:25 AM
#32
The Facility
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,062
Likes: 1
From: Mississippi
The only thing that I would guess on is that maybe the bearing weren't greased correctly or at all when they converted to the Moto A-arms.
We had a Cannibal come in a couple weeks ago with the low idling problem. It was just due to throttle cable wear and not the actual throttle body. We adjusted it slightly and it was fine.
The throttle bodys last year were different between the bike and quads. The woods racers who rode the motorcycles used the "cam" from the throttle body off of the Cannibal because it offered a smoother powerband than the bike making it easier to ride.....This past spring, they started using the same throttle body on both the bikes and ATVs. The cam now hs two throttle cable connections. One for the bike and one for the quad. If I remember correctly, there isn't enough cable on the ATV to change it and make it more responsive, but you can change it on the bike models.[I may have that backwards...we haven't been experimenting with them since they changed them]
We had a Cannibal come in a couple weeks ago with the low idling problem. It was just due to throttle cable wear and not the actual throttle body. We adjusted it slightly and it was fine.
The throttle bodys last year were different between the bike and quads. The woods racers who rode the motorcycles used the "cam" from the throttle body off of the Cannibal because it offered a smoother powerband than the bike making it easier to ride.....This past spring, they started using the same throttle body on both the bikes and ATVs. The cam now hs two throttle cable connections. One for the bike and one for the quad. If I remember correctly, there isn't enough cable on the ATV to change it and make it more responsive, but you can change it on the bike models.[I may have that backwards...we haven't been experimenting with them since they changed them]
Jul 29, 2002 | 03:45 AM
#33
Pro Rider
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 645
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A worn cable affecting the idle speed? Shouldn't the throttle be setting against a throttle stop and not having the cable holding it open?
I spent a little time adjusting my throttle a while back. Seems that it must be set perfectly in order not to affect idle yet still get WOT. Seems that a little cable stretch would prevent the quad from getting full throttle.
I'm hesitant to adjust the idle detent because of the TPS voltage change. In a fuel injected car, this would throw off the whole idle air circuit and cause problems. Luckily (I guess), with the CDale the only thing the IAC is used for is cold start and it has no feedback, only a pre-determined position vs temp. However, in the Cannondale, it does throw off the throttle percent calculation which affects fueling across the board -- unless you re-upload the map with the new setting. Unfortunately, I am having trouble accepting that I must give Optimum $300 for software and a cable that should cost $100, so I don't have the maintenance & diag kit.
Control arms... Does the Moto setup use a spherical bearing like a Honda 400EX control arm? This quad has very few hours on it, I'm thinking it hasn't had enough time on it even if there was an absence of lube for it to develop this much slop due to wear. I'm wondering if it was an error by the person that assembled the front end, or just a design problem (much like the Cannibal arms).
I spent a little time adjusting my throttle a while back. Seems that it must be set perfectly in order not to affect idle yet still get WOT. Seems that a little cable stretch would prevent the quad from getting full throttle.
I'm hesitant to adjust the idle detent because of the TPS voltage change. In a fuel injected car, this would throw off the whole idle air circuit and cause problems. Luckily (I guess), with the CDale the only thing the IAC is used for is cold start and it has no feedback, only a pre-determined position vs temp. However, in the Cannondale, it does throw off the throttle percent calculation which affects fueling across the board -- unless you re-upload the map with the new setting. Unfortunately, I am having trouble accepting that I must give Optimum $300 for software and a cable that should cost $100, so I don't have the maintenance & diag kit.
Control arms... Does the Moto setup use a spherical bearing like a Honda 400EX control arm? This quad has very few hours on it, I'm thinking it hasn't had enough time on it even if there was an absence of lube for it to develop this much slop due to wear. I'm wondering if it was an error by the person that assembled the front end, or just a design problem (much like the Cannibal arms).
Jul 29, 2002 | 08:55 AM
#34
Pro Rider
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
On the dales I have seen the idle set screw tends to back off cause of vibration or something a little bit of blue loctite on the threads works well.Also after breakin they benefit from having the min & max throttle settings reset.This setting is very important for good starting and running.I havent had a chance to check the 2003 with the airbox off but you definetly had to check the2002 to make sure you were getting wide open throttle most werent.Knowsalot at my dealer they have a LE with the different a-arms.Are these arms slightly wider?
