Off-roading can get out of line
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07-12-2004, 10:52 AM
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Off-roading can get out of line
Monday, July 12, 2004
Off-roading can get out of line
ATV sales up, but legal trails are few
By Rasheed Oluwa
Poughkeepsie Journal
As the sun begins its slow descent into the western horizon, the telltale sounds of summer fill the warm air: the calling of birds, the chirp of crickets and the kinetic buzz of ATVs racing through private property.
''We get calls beginning in the spring and what we try to do is follow up each complaint as best as we can and stay away from a routine,'' said Det. Charles Locke, who works on the Dutchess County Sheriff's Office's all-terrain vehicle detail. ''I have been riding ATVs recreationally for many years and a lot of ATV riders are law-abiding citizens. It just takes a few bad riders to make everyone else look bad.''
Police departments have been dealing with ATV complaints for years, and the problem seems to be getting worse, Locke said.
ATV sales continue to climb in the state, yet there are few places where people can ride legally. Lembo Lake in Modena offers a network of trails for riders to enjoy, but for the most part, riders are confined to stretches of private property or forced to travel to places such as Massachusetts, where there are state parks with legally designated ATV trails.
''Sales are good, but they could be even better,'' said Bill Malone, manager of Dutchess Recreational Vehicles Express on South Road in the Town of Poughkeepsie. ''Everyone who rides complains that New York state could care less about them. New York state needs to provide more land for ATV riders and that would make everyone happy.''
Freewheeling on farms
The lack of land has steered many riders to private property such as farms and power line paths.
''Dutchess is becoming more populated and the large tracts of wooded areas are disappearing, so you get a situation where many riders are trespassing,'' Locke said. ''Some wear their helmets, are registered and insured and some don't bother to do any of those things.''
In Milan, residents have complained to the town board about ATVs being used along the right-of-way for Niagara Mohawk's power lines.
Rudy Vavra, a Town of Milan resident, said he has no problem with ATV riders in general. But, he said he's fed up by some of the rude, reckless acts he has seen riders commit over the years.
''Those ATVs and cross-country motorbikes are very loud when people ride them,'' Vavra said. ''Also, a lot of the ATV riders come off the power lines and run into the road. I almost hit a 14-year-old kid on an ATV with my truck because he darted off onto the road.''
Alberto Bianchetti, a spokesman for Niagara Mohawk, said the company tries to work with all the local law enforcement agencies in its 24,000 square miles of service territory in an effort to monitor its trails.
''In a couple of these instances in the Capitol region, we had to conduct serious rescue efforts because violators riding ATVs were injured,'' Bianchetti said. ''Unfortunately, that's how we were able to find out who they were so we could press charges.''
Wendy Rosenbach, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Environmental Conservation, said the DEC's Motorized Off-Road Enforcement team is equipped with ATVs to patrol state land and assist other law enforcement agencies.
She said common trouble areas in the region include old railroad beds and powerline paths, state property outside of Dover, Town of Dover property in the Webatuck hamlet and patches of recreational park lands bordering Stewart International Airport in Orange County.
Violations typically include trespassing, unregistered and uninsured ATVs, and riding without a helmet, she said.
But the DEC is just one agency.
The Dutchess County Sheriff's Office started its ATV detail last year thanks to a $15,900 grant. The detail uses two ATVs and has four officers -- including Locke, Det. Jason Mark, and deputies Michael Dickett and Shawn Castano. The patrol was trained by the DEC's patrol.
Although the sheriff's office tries to handle each complaint as it comes, its resources get stretched.
''These kind of ATV patrols are new to police and you don't really see a lot of police departments with ATV patrols,'' Locke said.
Property damaged
John Steiner, who owns a farm in Red Hook, said he went to the sheriff's office for help last year after a few ATVs caused damage to his farm. Initially, Steiner said, he didn't have a problem with ATVs riding on his property. That was until several riders went too far.
''When the corn is six feet high, they'd go through it an knock it down,'' Steiner said. ''We caught one of them one time after we saw the lights going through the corn.''
Steiner said the problem has since stopped.
Marlborough police Chief Stephen Fajfer said the problem remained constant in his town, where the landscape of orchards is tempting for ATV riders.
Since his department doesn't have any ATVs of its own, it must rely on help from the Ulster County Sheriff's Office, the DEC and other agencies. Although Fajfer said his department was working to get a grant to start up its own ATV patrol, he said his department faced another problem.
''I think property owners recognize that there isn't a whole lot the police can do,'' he said. ''Once the riders are caught and they go to court, they realize it's only a violation.''
Earlier this year, state Sen. William Larkin, R-New Windsor, sponsored two bills that increase the penalties for ATV riders caught on private property without permission. One bill would have made it a class B misdemeanor under vehicle and traffic law. The other bill, which was crafted to be more favorable for passage in the state Assembly, would have elevated the offense to a B misdemeanor under penal law.
Harm to crops
''What we kept hearing from growers is that (ATV riders) come through their property and knock all the fruit from their trees, crops,'' said Stephen Casscles, an aide to Larkin. ''The most important thing is that it really destroys the roads and by ripping up the roads it encourages more soil erosion.''
Casscles said both bills gained passage in the Senate before stalling in the Assembly.
Many ATV riders blame the state government for failing to provide adequate ATV trails -- despite the fact they pay $10 for a registration fee.
Last month, ATV enthusiasts rallied at the state Capitol in Albany for more accountability from the state to its ATV riding constituents.
The rally was also to show support for a provision in Gov. George Pataki's state budget proposal to set up an ATV trail fund in the state. A $35 increase in ATV registration fees would help provide the money for the fund.
Brad Plummer, who helped coordinate the event for the New York State Off-Highway Recreational Vehicle Association, said he didn't condone the illegal use of ATVs. But he also blamed the state for having an inadequate trail system.
''We want to work with everybody involved,'' he said. ''We want to work with neighborhood kids who have no place to go. We ant to work with the homeowners. We want to work with the hikers. But these people (ATV riders) are registering their vehicles, so you have to give them some place to ride.''
Crime Beat, which explores law enforcement issues and cases worked by police in the mid-Hudson Valley, appears each Monday. To suggest a topic, call 845-437-4834. Rasheed Oluwa can be reached at roluwa@poughkeepsiejournal.com
On the Web
For information regarding ATV laws and safety issues, visit the Web sites of the following groups and agencies:
- The All-Terrain Vehicle Safety Institute: www.atvsafety.org
- The New York State Department of Motor Vehicles: www.nydmv.state.ny.us
- The New York New York State Off-Highway Recreational Vehicle Association: www.nysorva.org
Off-roading can get out of line
ATV sales up, but legal trails are few
By Rasheed Oluwa
Poughkeepsie Journal
As the sun begins its slow descent into the western horizon, the telltale sounds of summer fill the warm air: the calling of birds, the chirp of crickets and the kinetic buzz of ATVs racing through private property.
''We get calls beginning in the spring and what we try to do is follow up each complaint as best as we can and stay away from a routine,'' said Det. Charles Locke, who works on the Dutchess County Sheriff's Office's all-terrain vehicle detail. ''I have been riding ATVs recreationally for many years and a lot of ATV riders are law-abiding citizens. It just takes a few bad riders to make everyone else look bad.''
Police departments have been dealing with ATV complaints for years, and the problem seems to be getting worse, Locke said.
ATV sales continue to climb in the state, yet there are few places where people can ride legally. Lembo Lake in Modena offers a network of trails for riders to enjoy, but for the most part, riders are confined to stretches of private property or forced to travel to places such as Massachusetts, where there are state parks with legally designated ATV trails.
''Sales are good, but they could be even better,'' said Bill Malone, manager of Dutchess Recreational Vehicles Express on South Road in the Town of Poughkeepsie. ''Everyone who rides complains that New York state could care less about them. New York state needs to provide more land for ATV riders and that would make everyone happy.''
Freewheeling on farms
The lack of land has steered many riders to private property such as farms and power line paths.
''Dutchess is becoming more populated and the large tracts of wooded areas are disappearing, so you get a situation where many riders are trespassing,'' Locke said. ''Some wear their helmets, are registered and insured and some don't bother to do any of those things.''
In Milan, residents have complained to the town board about ATVs being used along the right-of-way for Niagara Mohawk's power lines.
Rudy Vavra, a Town of Milan resident, said he has no problem with ATV riders in general. But, he said he's fed up by some of the rude, reckless acts he has seen riders commit over the years.
''Those ATVs and cross-country motorbikes are very loud when people ride them,'' Vavra said. ''Also, a lot of the ATV riders come off the power lines and run into the road. I almost hit a 14-year-old kid on an ATV with my truck because he darted off onto the road.''
Alberto Bianchetti, a spokesman for Niagara Mohawk, said the company tries to work with all the local law enforcement agencies in its 24,000 square miles of service territory in an effort to monitor its trails.
''In a couple of these instances in the Capitol region, we had to conduct serious rescue efforts because violators riding ATVs were injured,'' Bianchetti said. ''Unfortunately, that's how we were able to find out who they were so we could press charges.''
Wendy Rosenbach, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Environmental Conservation, said the DEC's Motorized Off-Road Enforcement team is equipped with ATVs to patrol state land and assist other law enforcement agencies.
She said common trouble areas in the region include old railroad beds and powerline paths, state property outside of Dover, Town of Dover property in the Webatuck hamlet and patches of recreational park lands bordering Stewart International Airport in Orange County.
Violations typically include trespassing, unregistered and uninsured ATVs, and riding without a helmet, she said.
But the DEC is just one agency.
The Dutchess County Sheriff's Office started its ATV detail last year thanks to a $15,900 grant. The detail uses two ATVs and has four officers -- including Locke, Det. Jason Mark, and deputies Michael Dickett and Shawn Castano. The patrol was trained by the DEC's patrol.
Although the sheriff's office tries to handle each complaint as it comes, its resources get stretched.
''These kind of ATV patrols are new to police and you don't really see a lot of police departments with ATV patrols,'' Locke said.
Property damaged
John Steiner, who owns a farm in Red Hook, said he went to the sheriff's office for help last year after a few ATVs caused damage to his farm. Initially, Steiner said, he didn't have a problem with ATVs riding on his property. That was until several riders went too far.
''When the corn is six feet high, they'd go through it an knock it down,'' Steiner said. ''We caught one of them one time after we saw the lights going through the corn.''
Steiner said the problem has since stopped.
Marlborough police Chief Stephen Fajfer said the problem remained constant in his town, where the landscape of orchards is tempting for ATV riders.
Since his department doesn't have any ATVs of its own, it must rely on help from the Ulster County Sheriff's Office, the DEC and other agencies. Although Fajfer said his department was working to get a grant to start up its own ATV patrol, he said his department faced another problem.
''I think property owners recognize that there isn't a whole lot the police can do,'' he said. ''Once the riders are caught and they go to court, they realize it's only a violation.''
Earlier this year, state Sen. William Larkin, R-New Windsor, sponsored two bills that increase the penalties for ATV riders caught on private property without permission. One bill would have made it a class B misdemeanor under vehicle and traffic law. The other bill, which was crafted to be more favorable for passage in the state Assembly, would have elevated the offense to a B misdemeanor under penal law.
Harm to crops
''What we kept hearing from growers is that (ATV riders) come through their property and knock all the fruit from their trees, crops,'' said Stephen Casscles, an aide to Larkin. ''The most important thing is that it really destroys the roads and by ripping up the roads it encourages more soil erosion.''
Casscles said both bills gained passage in the Senate before stalling in the Assembly.
Many ATV riders blame the state government for failing to provide adequate ATV trails -- despite the fact they pay $10 for a registration fee.
Last month, ATV enthusiasts rallied at the state Capitol in Albany for more accountability from the state to its ATV riding constituents.
The rally was also to show support for a provision in Gov. George Pataki's state budget proposal to set up an ATV trail fund in the state. A $35 increase in ATV registration fees would help provide the money for the fund.
Brad Plummer, who helped coordinate the event for the New York State Off-Highway Recreational Vehicle Association, said he didn't condone the illegal use of ATVs. But he also blamed the state for having an inadequate trail system.
''We want to work with everybody involved,'' he said. ''We want to work with neighborhood kids who have no place to go. We ant to work with the homeowners. We want to work with the hikers. But these people (ATV riders) are registering their vehicles, so you have to give them some place to ride.''
Crime Beat, which explores law enforcement issues and cases worked by police in the mid-Hudson Valley, appears each Monday. To suggest a topic, call 845-437-4834. Rasheed Oluwa can be reached at roluwa@poughkeepsiejournal.com
On the Web
For information regarding ATV laws and safety issues, visit the Web sites of the following groups and agencies:
- The All-Terrain Vehicle Safety Institute: www.atvsafety.org
- The New York State Department of Motor Vehicles: www.nydmv.state.ny.us
- The New York New York State Off-Highway Recreational Vehicle Association: www.nysorva.org
#2
07-12-2004, 07:23 PM
Off-roading can get out of line
Wake up, people.....the day they start impounding quads AND fining these guys/gals..... is the day we start down the road to reform.
If you won't join a club and force those same members into developing a <u>strong</u> relationship with law enforcement.....the legislators <u>WILL</u> solve this problem for us.
These people have absolutely no respect for other people's property and only do what they do because of the knowledge that quad can never be taken away from them.........<u>that has to change</u>.
If you won't join a club and force those same members into developing a <u>strong</u> relationship with law enforcement.....the legislators <u>WILL</u> solve this problem for us.
These people have absolutely no respect for other people's property and only do what they do because of the knowledge that quad can never be taken away from them.........<u>that has to change</u>.
#3
07-16-2004, 03:43 PM
#5
07-18-2004, 01:07 PM
Off-roading can get out of line
Nobody wants to go to these kind if extremes......yet very few seem willing to even get EDUCATED, not only as to the problems we face....but the realities involved in solving them. I could literally write you a book on the apathy and leadership problems we are facing right now here in Michigan in regards to the atving community. Sure, they know what "some" of the problems are......yet you have one heck of a hard time finding somebody out there willing to strap a set on and address them! (yet, by God, if you're talking "group rides"; "roasted weenies" and "t-shirts".....<u>you've got to turn them away</u>!).
It's no different in our national organizations.
Here we have our largest organized voice out there..... being flat out controlled by WHO?.....a motorcycle club! Does anybody realize how much BAGGAGE these guys bring with them in regards to not only things like the helmet issue (do you see these guys going flat-out after "safety-free" zones like Windrock or the huge problem we face in WV regarding safety?)....while at the same time attempting to convince the powers that be that "motorcycles" should deserve trails completely separate from all others!?!? (I have never witnessed a more arrogant bunch of individuals in my entire life; all of who seemingly believe that motorcycle sales v.s. quad sales are still at mid-1980 levels and that there will <u>always</u> be plenty of trails for "everybody".....).
To make a long story short; it is frustrating in the least.....made even more so by our own '"brothers" <u>forcing us</u> to draft unwelcome laws that might effectively force them out of the sport all together (if you want to play....you gotta pay....which meant something entirely 'different' before these idiots hit the streets and trails).
The sad part of all of this is that when you run a national organization that's not only not your own...but dependent on your being as vague as possible concerning issues like helmets, impoundments and loud pipes; so as not to adversely affect your membership (<u>salary</u>) or corporate sponsorship....all of these issues will continue to be given nothing but lip service.
We need a national organization commited to <U>SHOWING</U> those who oppose us and, more importantly, those in a position of power.....that we are <U>SERIOUS</U> about <u>CLEANING UP OUR OWN BACKYARD</u>. Only then, will we have <u>earned</u> the respect so many of us "now" think these people should just simply 'hand us' for owning an atv.
It's no different in our national organizations.
Here we have our largest organized voice out there..... being flat out controlled by WHO?.....a motorcycle club! Does anybody realize how much BAGGAGE these guys bring with them in regards to not only things like the helmet issue (do you see these guys going flat-out after "safety-free" zones like Windrock or the huge problem we face in WV regarding safety?)....while at the same time attempting to convince the powers that be that "motorcycles" should deserve trails completely separate from all others!?!? (I have never witnessed a more arrogant bunch of individuals in my entire life; all of who seemingly believe that motorcycle sales v.s. quad sales are still at mid-1980 levels and that there will <u>always</u> be plenty of trails for "everybody".....).
To make a long story short; it is frustrating in the least.....made even more so by our own '"brothers" <u>forcing us</u> to draft unwelcome laws that might effectively force them out of the sport all together (if you want to play....you gotta pay....which meant something entirely 'different' before these idiots hit the streets and trails).
The sad part of all of this is that when you run a national organization that's not only not your own...but dependent on your being as vague as possible concerning issues like helmets, impoundments and loud pipes; so as not to adversely affect your membership (<u>salary</u>) or corporate sponsorship....all of these issues will continue to be given nothing but lip service.
We need a national organization commited to <U>SHOWING</U> those who oppose us and, more importantly, those in a position of power.....that we are <U>SERIOUS</U> about <u>CLEANING UP OUR OWN BACKYARD</u>. Only then, will we have <u>earned</u> the respect so many of us "now" think these people should just simply 'hand us' for owning an atv.
#6
07-19-2004, 01:38 PM
Off-roading can get out of line
I think it is important to note, that not only Join a club, but to make sure that the club be affiliated with safety and proper use of trails. Too many CLubs around here are nothing more than glorified mettings of people who want nothing more to do than find the next deepest mudhole on the trail and keep wallering it out until noone can get through it. Then Someone starts a trail Around it, and before you know it, its all snowballed.
I agree that Riding should be fun, But we also need to take responsibility for our own actions. WHere Im from, Im telling you if you were running through someones crops, youd be shot.. Plain and simple, and Im also telling you the sheriif would support the shooting.
The ball doesnt need to stop with us either, Alot of us have children. We need to show them ethical and correct forms of Trail running and management and maybe eventually we can get alot of the idiots off the trails that are ruining it for everyone.
I agree that Riding should be fun, But we also need to take responsibility for our own actions. WHere Im from, Im telling you if you were running through someones crops, youd be shot.. Plain and simple, and Im also telling you the sheriif would support the shooting.
The ball doesnt need to stop with us either, Alot of us have children. We need to show them ethical and correct forms of Trail running and management and maybe eventually we can get alot of the idiots off the trails that are ruining it for everyone.
#7
07-20-2004, 08:04 AM
Off-roading can get out of line
I wholehearterly agree with your assesment of a lot of these clubs and their values. Even when you don't have the kind of people you describe; there is usually just one, maybe two people who possess ALL the knowledge the rest of them <u>have absolutely no desire to accumulate</u>.
I've sat in I don't know how many meetings where I finally had to say 'something' intelligent other than about where they were going to ride 'next'; who was going to bring the 'weenies' when they did and what the bumper stickers and t-shirts should look like. Other club meetings had more to do with treating membership like "little kids"; implying that they "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" as their administration was far to 'God-Like' to not only keep us informed as to what they were experiencing with the people that mattered......but who would become arrogantly indignant the minute you asked anything beyond what they felt should be brought to the light of day regarding OUR future.
I hate to be the one to say it (as I often am the first to do).....but a lot of this crap has to do with the explosion of "non-profits" in this country. A lot of these guys set up these organizations NOT with the intention of changing things TODAY.....but with the thought of what their "tax return' is going to look like next year; how many family members they can get in on the gravy train with them and just how long they think the whole thing can stay on the tracks with them in complete control and a little extra something in hand (the main reason why some of them refuse to allow free elections which might endanger the breadth of their involvement and all the accompanying <u>write-offs</u> they presently enjoy).
The worst thing being that the rest of the world isn't entirely "stupid".........they see these guys for who they are.......in effect causing any untainted relationship the '"rest of us" would like to have with these people in power.....to be just that more difficult to establish.
I've sat in I don't know how many meetings where I finally had to say 'something' intelligent other than about where they were going to ride 'next'; who was going to bring the 'weenies' when they did and what the bumper stickers and t-shirts should look like. Other club meetings had more to do with treating membership like "little kids"; implying that they "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" as their administration was far to 'God-Like' to not only keep us informed as to what they were experiencing with the people that mattered......but who would become arrogantly indignant the minute you asked anything beyond what they felt should be brought to the light of day regarding OUR future.
I hate to be the one to say it (as I often am the first to do).....but a lot of this crap has to do with the explosion of "non-profits" in this country. A lot of these guys set up these organizations NOT with the intention of changing things TODAY.....but with the thought of what their "tax return' is going to look like next year; how many family members they can get in on the gravy train with them and just how long they think the whole thing can stay on the tracks with them in complete control and a little extra something in hand (the main reason why some of them refuse to allow free elections which might endanger the breadth of their involvement and all the accompanying <u>write-offs</u> they presently enjoy).
The worst thing being that the rest of the world isn't entirely "stupid".........they see these guys for who they are.......in effect causing any untainted relationship the '"rest of us" would like to have with these people in power.....to be just that more difficult to establish.
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