Long Island NY Impounds
Apr 24, 2005 | 08:38 PM
#21
Pro Rider
Is old enough to know better, but too young to stop.
Is old enough to know better, but too young to stop.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,681
Likes: 0
From: Northern Virginia, near DC
Long Island NY Impounds
CTATV, I fully appreciate your argument, and am glad it was presented in a mature and respectful manner. I believe it represents the riding situation across the nation. The issue is not with the law enforcement community... or the land owners. It relaly comes down to the rights of people or business to control their own property rights, and some of our riding brethren who would violate those rights.
You indicate that IBM doesn't really care if you ride there or not... Has anyone approached them with a plan other than hey can I ride on your land? You have to realize there are legal issues and exposure they would endure if they said yes to every kid who came along... but if you approached it from a club persepctive.. and promised to maintain the property, and cover the insurance etc to relieve their liability.. you might stand a much better chance. PLUS, they would be assured that club members would police themselves.
Of course you would get the "TRESSPASSER type who would ride the area because they saw others doing it.. Well I say they deserve to lose their ATV. I COMMEND THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER FOR DOING HIS JOB! Maybe this will get junior lawbreaker's attention. IT is obvious that he didn't take two minutes to research the local and state laws.. and when he got caught, he squeals like a frightened pig. UNFAIR...
I hope he loses his driver's license. Maybe then he will learn a very good lesson in life that in a society with laws, he doesn't get a choice on which one's he agrees with or not. If you do th ecrime, you have to be willing to accept the consequences.
We all complain about lack of legal riding areas... well here is a good example of why that happens... And when you choose not to register your machine.. you rob the state of needed funds that go to maintaining, and building new trails.
If you disagree with what is going on locally... get involved as an advocate of change and work WITHIN the system to make it happen. God knows the local DNR would appreciate the help. The system works... it may not get immediate results, but it works all the same.
There is a lot of truth in what Blackballed is saying about as a group we don't take enough action to police ourselves. And it is generally a fact that for years we have been complaining about parental responsibilities in instructing our youths on proper respect for others and laws. This case is a classic example of that.... Those of us that have a little more gray hair on our head these days grew up in a time when respect and honor were the two things that defined a man.
I don't know what the current times would say about that.. but it appears to me to be a whatever you can get away with attitude that prevails with this generation.
ATV riding is not a right folks.. it is a priviledge that is granted.. and with it, there are certain expectations of responsible action. Step outside those boundaries, and you lose my sympathy.
You indicate that IBM doesn't really care if you ride there or not... Has anyone approached them with a plan other than hey can I ride on your land? You have to realize there are legal issues and exposure they would endure if they said yes to every kid who came along... but if you approached it from a club persepctive.. and promised to maintain the property, and cover the insurance etc to relieve their liability.. you might stand a much better chance. PLUS, they would be assured that club members would police themselves.
Of course you would get the "TRESSPASSER type who would ride the area because they saw others doing it.. Well I say they deserve to lose their ATV. I COMMEND THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER FOR DOING HIS JOB! Maybe this will get junior lawbreaker's attention. IT is obvious that he didn't take two minutes to research the local and state laws.. and when he got caught, he squeals like a frightened pig. UNFAIR...
I hope he loses his driver's license. Maybe then he will learn a very good lesson in life that in a society with laws, he doesn't get a choice on which one's he agrees with or not. If you do th ecrime, you have to be willing to accept the consequences.
We all complain about lack of legal riding areas... well here is a good example of why that happens... And when you choose not to register your machine.. you rob the state of needed funds that go to maintaining, and building new trails.
If you disagree with what is going on locally... get involved as an advocate of change and work WITHIN the system to make it happen. God knows the local DNR would appreciate the help. The system works... it may not get immediate results, but it works all the same.
There is a lot of truth in what Blackballed is saying about as a group we don't take enough action to police ourselves. And it is generally a fact that for years we have been complaining about parental responsibilities in instructing our youths on proper respect for others and laws. This case is a classic example of that.... Those of us that have a little more gray hair on our head these days grew up in a time when respect and honor were the two things that defined a man.
I don't know what the current times would say about that.. but it appears to me to be a whatever you can get away with attitude that prevails with this generation.
ATV riding is not a right folks.. it is a priviledge that is granted.. and with it, there are certain expectations of responsible action. Step outside those boundaries, and you lose my sympathy.
Apr 24, 2005 | 09:09 PM
#22
Pro Rider
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 0
From: CT/NJ
Long Island NY Impounds
[quote]
Originally posted by: blackballed
Nobody lost their lisences you read into my comment wrong on that section so Im not going to destroy what you said because it could have been an honest misteak on either of our parts in not reading or clarifying that I was speaking over the years not in today only.
Oh yeah another generalization about age. I wasnt insulting you in my other response for consitering me a kid because I am and thats fine but maturity has nothing to do with being a kid or an adult by age requirements
Originally posted by: blackballed
Originally posted by: CTATV
".... I dont ride anywhere. I know plenty of places to ride where I am almost never bothered but they are all illegal...."
<STRONG>Again, I am sorry that there are only a few of us on here who won't allow you to state this and get away with it. We <EM>care</EM> about what our children read and do <EM>not</EM> want them emulating what you propose or think it's "cool". We don't <EM>care</EM> how far you have to trailer to ride....because YOU don't care about getting involved enough to impound the vehicles of people just like you. We <u>immediately</u> strike down what you say <EM>with</EM> prejudice and try to show you for just who you really are (and sorry if that wasn't as p.c. as your 21st century teachers might have 'put it' [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]).
</STRONG>
How can you speak about being so true to the importance of self responsibility when you blaitently blame the public for problems in raising your children. Beyond obscine information, which everybody agrees has no place here, its YOUR responsibility as a parent to take care of your kids. If they see things or read things you dont want them to that is your fault not anybody elses. You cant expect others to nuture and raise your children thats your job. should we censor everything?? I guess you should have defected to communist russia. because they seem to have the same values. Censorship for all. Just because my opinion is different then yours gives you no right to deny it a place on these forms. Thats why we live in america. I can agree to disagree with you and thats as far as it can go because thank god your not making any laws here.
"...just like they were illegal when you rode everywhere as a kid which at 19 im sure you still consiter me one......"
<STRONG>You <EM>are</EM> a kid, my friend....because you still <EM>act</EM> like one. Being an adult has nothing to do with age....it is <EM>earned</EM> in (basically) how you teach others <u>not</u> to do the same things we all knew were wrong in the first place. Unfortunately, you were not even born when many of us were riding as you do; so you have little appreciation of how liberal the laws were at that time and what they afforded us. I am very sorry that this may not seem 'fair'....yet this is another concept that comes with maturity.</STRONG>
Yeah im still a kid and your right maturity has nothing to do with age you are a prime example. Enligten me where i whimpered about it being fair that one came out of your rear. Think I dont know life isnt fair? Your more then welcome to comment on anything I say but to make assumptions about who I am and deface me without a basis of fact is as immature as it comes. you might as well say your a doodoo head while your at it.
"...Im almost never bothered unless im on the road but every once and a while somebody decideds to put up a stink (not usually the owner of the property) and when that happens I am in the wrong and it makes for less enjoyable riding always looking over your shoulder until your deep into the woods....."
<STRONG>And isn't this what your liberal teachers have taught you? That YOUR experience is #1 (at the expense of modeling proper behavior or even obeying the law) and that if that experience isn't "enjoyable"...you have every right to simply do as you wish! Gosh, far be it for us "conservative" old folks to cause you to "look over your shoulder" whenever a pang of <EM>guilt</EM> might get in the way of your having fun!your way!</STRONG>
Now your babling on about liberalism and conservativeism. You make a lot of immature steriotypes of people as a whole. are you prejudice against the youth of america. If your socially concerned then I ask you what measures have you taken in your area to further expand the horizions of the teachers in your public school. How involved are you in the PTA or PTO of your district in what lesson plans are approved for your children. it looks like your making a bad example for the rest of the parents out there. Put your money where yur mouth is
"...theres no problems in the trails its really nosy neigbors at all the entrances who like to bother us because they think its their moral duity....."
<STRONG>Aaaahh....it's that outdated "moral" <EM>crap</EM> that really gets to you, doesn't it? I bet you've had enough public school deprogramming that this outdated concept is just about on the same level as modeling good behavior for others. Hey, at least you learned <EM>something</EM> in school!
I simply was speaking about ATV and land use and you have turned this into a person attack based on prejudice generaizations that are clearly an unwarented defimation of character. Not that I really care what you think of me I just think its important how childish these sarcastic statements about my inteligence are and how much they illistrate your own concept of age having no relation to maturity. Maybe you should criticize my spelling in your reply to this. Yes I will agree I cant spell excelently im sure there are typos in this response.
</STRONG>"
....IBM owns almost 2000 acres in a town next to mine. They have like 30 year old no trespassing signs up at the entrance to a trail. An old lady was driving by and called the cops on me. The cops showed up and said, look we totally understand we'd leave you alone if we drove by ourselves but this crazy old lady took down your lisence plates and called it in so we have to tell you to leave. They even said IBM really doesnt care the signs are just to cover their butt. its 2000 acres of fields and woods with no construction on it and its next to an airport so noise is not a factor...."
<STRONG>Do me a favor. Write IBM and get permission on paper. You are using people who have relationships to build within the community (cops) speaking for absent landowners that they have NO chance of knowing what their desires actually may be. Nice try....yet this still doesn't jive with what we all know to be true....written permission is the only "adult" way to behave and there <EM>is</EM> no substitute.</STRONG>
I already told you they arent going to get permission on paper. The world is full of dishonest people who take no responsibility for their actions and are sue happy make it harder for all of us. I never deny that im not doing somthing wrong. Ive been arrested on my dirtbike and I didnt get mad at the cop. I knew what I was doing was wrong and I gave him no trouble because he was doing his job. Because of these people who dont take personal responsibility and sue mcdonalds for making them fat or burning them with coffie (hmm coffie is supposed to be hot). IBM will never take that legal risk. Nobody really has a problem with it because if technically im knowingly breaking the law they take no chance of me being one of those sue happy people and taking from them moneys i dont deserve.
"...Perfect example of what im talking about. You have a base to stand on for your ATV activism out there....."
<STRONG>Another lesson that I'm going to give for free..what you <EM>start</EM> with in life has absolutely nothing to do with what you end up with through persistence and hard work. I realize that these public schools teach you that large numbers of people are destined to be poor, destitute and homeless no matter what my first sentance above implies. I'm here to tell you that the world isn't flat and that you don't fall off of it when you hit the CT state line. We travel many miles to do our riding and support clubs both in and out of state. Try and be the guy who <EM>starts</EM> something rather than the guy who never tried</STRONG>.
More sarcasm instead of an honest discution of opinions....I would be glad to be part of somthing pushing for better legislation but I honestly dont have the time at this point in my life nor do people take me seriously because of my age which will limit my finantial backing If I attempt to be proactive. On the same plane.. why are you complaining about the over liberal teachers and not doing anything about it. Be proactive. Hypocritic just like i stated before
"...There is a unified CT group of ATVers and they have never been able to get more then private land to ride on that they all pitched in for. there is lesss and less open land in CT and no time in the ever future will any of it be put aside for ATVs....."
<STRONG>Why don't you JOIN these guys and try to make a difference either in or out-state?</STRONG>
Because the club is full and closed to new members I already looked into it. And anytime I hear about any type of petition or anything I always do what I can. But in the meantime my youth and the point in my life when I have time to ride is withering away. easy for you to say we should sacrifice what you didnt have to.
"...the few off road places that are put asside are for only dirtbikes and snowmobiles. We are supposed to register our ATVs for 30 dollars a year and you know what htey do with that money?? just put it into the general budget and 0% of it goes to any related off road things...
<STRONG>We are fighting the same thing here in Michigan......have you been in contact with the people who care about these things, asked them what is being done about it and/or if you can help?</STRONG>
[b] Answered that above [B/]
"...Be all high and mighty but I guarentee you if you were living here you would be riding the same places we do so dont be a hypocrit....."
<STRONG>I have the choice to ride wherever I want. There is plenty of farm country up here that i could violate on all day long and never probably even get 'caught'. What I choose to do is act like a man, not ruin things for others and lead by example for others somewhat younger than myself. I know, it's that stupid 'ol "morals" crap rearting its ugly head again.....maybe this concept really <EM>is</EM> only for us 'old fogies' after all.</STRONG>
you dont have to you have legal places to ride and dont turn this into a young verses old debate as we covered age has nothing to do with maturity
"...And im not an a$$ when i get stopped. I've always been polite and just played dumb to the fact that it wasnt there. Most of the time after talking to people and them seeing im a polite young gentlemen just out to enjoy the country they leave me alone...."
<STRONG>Whether you can play 'the game' has less to do with the fact that your using the term "most of the time" implies that you are continually getting caught and not getting punished. It is very easy to see why you (and many others who agree with you here) are so allied <EM>against</EM> increased penalties or impoundments. How could you afford it or what would you ride?</STRONG>
No its only a handfull of times i have had problems
"....Its easy for you to be so perfect when you have the chance to be but when your going to prep school 6 days a week, some of your friends dont have drivers lisences and nobody has the money to trailer up to masachusets on their one day to sleep in dont tell me you'd be princess twinkle toes and never bend a rule when you knew you really werent hurting or bothering anybody with common sense.
<STRONG>#1) If your friends don't have drivers licenses at <EM>18 or 19</EM>....it sounds like the atv community is needing needs some of this <u>same</u> legislation....
I was speaking of my entire teenage range of riding. When I was 16 my friends didnt have lisences and not all of them have a pickup truck or means to move their ATV even if they do because they cant afford it. Another personal attack insulting my inteligence too.
#2) "Not having money" simply means not doing what you want <EM>today</EM>....not going out and taking what you want from others <u>that have worked for it</u> (another subject I'm sure that your teachers passed on)....
and #3....you guys aren't "bending" any rules here....you're flat out thumbing your noses at them.
Sorry, but like your parents....us old farts can <EM>tell</EM> the difference. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
</STRONG>
Good luck in getting more involved instead of bitchin' (or I guess at somebody in your group getting their licenses back....).
".... I dont ride anywhere. I know plenty of places to ride where I am almost never bothered but they are all illegal...."
<STRONG>Again, I am sorry that there are only a few of us on here who won't allow you to state this and get away with it. We <EM>care</EM> about what our children read and do <EM>not</EM> want them emulating what you propose or think it's "cool". We don't <EM>care</EM> how far you have to trailer to ride....because YOU don't care about getting involved enough to impound the vehicles of people just like you. We <u>immediately</u> strike down what you say <EM>with</EM> prejudice and try to show you for just who you really are (and sorry if that wasn't as p.c. as your 21st century teachers might have 'put it' [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]).
</STRONG>
How can you speak about being so true to the importance of self responsibility when you blaitently blame the public for problems in raising your children. Beyond obscine information, which everybody agrees has no place here, its YOUR responsibility as a parent to take care of your kids. If they see things or read things you dont want them to that is your fault not anybody elses. You cant expect others to nuture and raise your children thats your job. should we censor everything?? I guess you should have defected to communist russia. because they seem to have the same values. Censorship for all. Just because my opinion is different then yours gives you no right to deny it a place on these forms. Thats why we live in america. I can agree to disagree with you and thats as far as it can go because thank god your not making any laws here.
"...just like they were illegal when you rode everywhere as a kid which at 19 im sure you still consiter me one......"
<STRONG>You <EM>are</EM> a kid, my friend....because you still <EM>act</EM> like one. Being an adult has nothing to do with age....it is <EM>earned</EM> in (basically) how you teach others <u>not</u> to do the same things we all knew were wrong in the first place. Unfortunately, you were not even born when many of us were riding as you do; so you have little appreciation of how liberal the laws were at that time and what they afforded us. I am very sorry that this may not seem 'fair'....yet this is another concept that comes with maturity.</STRONG>
Yeah im still a kid and your right maturity has nothing to do with age you are a prime example. Enligten me where i whimpered about it being fair that one came out of your rear. Think I dont know life isnt fair? Your more then welcome to comment on anything I say but to make assumptions about who I am and deface me without a basis of fact is as immature as it comes. you might as well say your a doodoo head while your at it.
"...Im almost never bothered unless im on the road but every once and a while somebody decideds to put up a stink (not usually the owner of the property) and when that happens I am in the wrong and it makes for less enjoyable riding always looking over your shoulder until your deep into the woods....."
<STRONG>And isn't this what your liberal teachers have taught you? That YOUR experience is #1 (at the expense of modeling proper behavior or even obeying the law) and that if that experience isn't "enjoyable"...you have every right to simply do as you wish! Gosh, far be it for us "conservative" old folks to cause you to "look over your shoulder" whenever a pang of <EM>guilt</EM> might get in the way of your having fun!your way!</STRONG>
Now your babling on about liberalism and conservativeism. You make a lot of immature steriotypes of people as a whole. are you prejudice against the youth of america. If your socially concerned then I ask you what measures have you taken in your area to further expand the horizions of the teachers in your public school. How involved are you in the PTA or PTO of your district in what lesson plans are approved for your children. it looks like your making a bad example for the rest of the parents out there. Put your money where yur mouth is
"...theres no problems in the trails its really nosy neigbors at all the entrances who like to bother us because they think its their moral duity....."
<STRONG>Aaaahh....it's that outdated "moral" <EM>crap</EM> that really gets to you, doesn't it? I bet you've had enough public school deprogramming that this outdated concept is just about on the same level as modeling good behavior for others. Hey, at least you learned <EM>something</EM> in school!
I simply was speaking about ATV and land use and you have turned this into a person attack based on prejudice generaizations that are clearly an unwarented defimation of character. Not that I really care what you think of me I just think its important how childish these sarcastic statements about my inteligence are and how much they illistrate your own concept of age having no relation to maturity. Maybe you should criticize my spelling in your reply to this. Yes I will agree I cant spell excelently im sure there are typos in this response.
</STRONG>"
....IBM owns almost 2000 acres in a town next to mine. They have like 30 year old no trespassing signs up at the entrance to a trail. An old lady was driving by and called the cops on me. The cops showed up and said, look we totally understand we'd leave you alone if we drove by ourselves but this crazy old lady took down your lisence plates and called it in so we have to tell you to leave. They even said IBM really doesnt care the signs are just to cover their butt. its 2000 acres of fields and woods with no construction on it and its next to an airport so noise is not a factor...."
<STRONG>Do me a favor. Write IBM and get permission on paper. You are using people who have relationships to build within the community (cops) speaking for absent landowners that they have NO chance of knowing what their desires actually may be. Nice try....yet this still doesn't jive with what we all know to be true....written permission is the only "adult" way to behave and there <EM>is</EM> no substitute.</STRONG>
I already told you they arent going to get permission on paper. The world is full of dishonest people who take no responsibility for their actions and are sue happy make it harder for all of us. I never deny that im not doing somthing wrong. Ive been arrested on my dirtbike and I didnt get mad at the cop. I knew what I was doing was wrong and I gave him no trouble because he was doing his job. Because of these people who dont take personal responsibility and sue mcdonalds for making them fat or burning them with coffie (hmm coffie is supposed to be hot). IBM will never take that legal risk. Nobody really has a problem with it because if technically im knowingly breaking the law they take no chance of me being one of those sue happy people and taking from them moneys i dont deserve.
"...Perfect example of what im talking about. You have a base to stand on for your ATV activism out there....."
<STRONG>Another lesson that I'm going to give for free..what you <EM>start</EM> with in life has absolutely nothing to do with what you end up with through persistence and hard work. I realize that these public schools teach you that large numbers of people are destined to be poor, destitute and homeless no matter what my first sentance above implies. I'm here to tell you that the world isn't flat and that you don't fall off of it when you hit the CT state line. We travel many miles to do our riding and support clubs both in and out of state. Try and be the guy who <EM>starts</EM> something rather than the guy who never tried</STRONG>.
More sarcasm instead of an honest discution of opinions....I would be glad to be part of somthing pushing for better legislation but I honestly dont have the time at this point in my life nor do people take me seriously because of my age which will limit my finantial backing If I attempt to be proactive. On the same plane.. why are you complaining about the over liberal teachers and not doing anything about it. Be proactive. Hypocritic just like i stated before
"...There is a unified CT group of ATVers and they have never been able to get more then private land to ride on that they all pitched in for. there is lesss and less open land in CT and no time in the ever future will any of it be put aside for ATVs....."
<STRONG>Why don't you JOIN these guys and try to make a difference either in or out-state?</STRONG>
Because the club is full and closed to new members I already looked into it. And anytime I hear about any type of petition or anything I always do what I can. But in the meantime my youth and the point in my life when I have time to ride is withering away. easy for you to say we should sacrifice what you didnt have to.
"...the few off road places that are put asside are for only dirtbikes and snowmobiles. We are supposed to register our ATVs for 30 dollars a year and you know what htey do with that money?? just put it into the general budget and 0% of it goes to any related off road things...
<STRONG>We are fighting the same thing here in Michigan......have you been in contact with the people who care about these things, asked them what is being done about it and/or if you can help?</STRONG>
[b] Answered that above [B/]
"...Be all high and mighty but I guarentee you if you were living here you would be riding the same places we do so dont be a hypocrit....."
<STRONG>I have the choice to ride wherever I want. There is plenty of farm country up here that i could violate on all day long and never probably even get 'caught'. What I choose to do is act like a man, not ruin things for others and lead by example for others somewhat younger than myself. I know, it's that stupid 'ol "morals" crap rearting its ugly head again.....maybe this concept really <EM>is</EM> only for us 'old fogies' after all.</STRONG>
you dont have to you have legal places to ride and dont turn this into a young verses old debate as we covered age has nothing to do with maturity
"...And im not an a$$ when i get stopped. I've always been polite and just played dumb to the fact that it wasnt there. Most of the time after talking to people and them seeing im a polite young gentlemen just out to enjoy the country they leave me alone...."
<STRONG>Whether you can play 'the game' has less to do with the fact that your using the term "most of the time" implies that you are continually getting caught and not getting punished. It is very easy to see why you (and many others who agree with you here) are so allied <EM>against</EM> increased penalties or impoundments. How could you afford it or what would you ride?</STRONG>
No its only a handfull of times i have had problems
"....Its easy for you to be so perfect when you have the chance to be but when your going to prep school 6 days a week, some of your friends dont have drivers lisences and nobody has the money to trailer up to masachusets on their one day to sleep in dont tell me you'd be princess twinkle toes and never bend a rule when you knew you really werent hurting or bothering anybody with common sense.
<STRONG>#1) If your friends don't have drivers licenses at <EM>18 or 19</EM>....it sounds like the atv community is needing needs some of this <u>same</u> legislation....
I was speaking of my entire teenage range of riding. When I was 16 my friends didnt have lisences and not all of them have a pickup truck or means to move their ATV even if they do because they cant afford it. Another personal attack insulting my inteligence too.
#2) "Not having money" simply means not doing what you want <EM>today</EM>....not going out and taking what you want from others <u>that have worked for it</u> (another subject I'm sure that your teachers passed on)....
and #3....you guys aren't "bending" any rules here....you're flat out thumbing your noses at them.
Sorry, but like your parents....us old farts can <EM>tell</EM> the difference. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
</STRONG>
Good luck in getting more involved instead of bitchin' (or I guess at somebody in your group getting their licenses back....).
Oh yeah another generalization about age. I wasnt insulting you in my other response for consitering me a kid because I am and thats fine but maturity has nothing to do with being a kid or an adult by age requirements
Apr 25, 2005 | 09:27 AM
#23
Pro Rider
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
Long Island NY Impounds
Originally posted by:CTATV:
"...How can you speak about being so true to the importance of self responsibility when you blaitently blame the public for problems in raising your children...."
I never mention "my" children or blamed the public about anything.
"...Beyond obscine information, which everybody agrees has no place here, its YOUR responsibility as a parent to take care of your kids...."
I have no idea what "obscene information" refers to nor (again) did I ever refer to raising anybody's kids
"...If they see things or read things you dont want them to that is your fault not anybody elses. You cant expect others to nuture and raise your children thats your job. should we censor everything??..."
Again, I have no idea what you are talking about in reference to my comments; nor can I see where "censorship" has absolutely anything to do with what we are talking about.
"..;.I guess you should have defected to communist russia. because they seem to have the same values. Censorship for all. Just because my opinion is different then yours gives you no right to deny it a place on these forms..."
If crying "censorship" is the best defense you have here....."
"...Thats why we live in america. I can agree to disagree with you and thats as far as it can go because thank god your not making any laws here..."
That is NOT as "far as it can go". Let me give you a little lesson which goes beyond your liberal indoctrination. FACTS are what fuel a good debate....not "feelings" or perceived "rights" nor any foul cries of censorship or discrimination. These are liberal strategies designed to turn attention away from said facts and <u>won't</u> be tolerated here.
"...Yeah im still a kid and your right maturity has nothing to do with age you are a prime example. Enligten me where i whimpered about it being fair that one came out of your rear....."
You seem to think that because us older riders enjoyed access laws which were definitely more permissive in nature, you should to. Thus my reference to "fairness".
"...Think I dont know life isnt fair? Your more then welcome to comment on anything I say but to make assumptions about who I am and deface me without a basis of fact is as immature as it comes. you might as well say your a doodoo head while your at it..."
Again, I am just relating some facts to you that you are obviously unaware of. I am not spoon feeding them to you...you're 19 and I think you can handle them.
"...Now your babling on about liberalism and conservativeism. You make a lot of immature steriotypes of people as a whole. are you prejudice against the youth of america..."
No prejudices here; just a simple talk about those "moral values" you so disgustingly dismissed that old lady for having and obviously something you were taught to resist at every turn.
"....If your socially concerned then I ask you what measures have you taken in your area to further expand the horizions of the teachers in your public school. How involved are you in the PTA or PTO of your district in what lesson plans are approved for your children. it looks like your making a bad example for the rest of the parents out there. Put your money where yur mouth is"
I've discussed this with my wife and find that tackling this MAJOR problem is somewhat like becoming frustrated with off-road subject matter. You can fight it 'alone'; yet you must always seek others in the community who you can actually be proud to stand beside (which is a lot harder than one might think). I support conservative projects in my school system and what the church does with our youth within the community and at school. As in the off-road community, we need more people out there willing to take a stand on this subject; as there are very few within any community who want to be viewed as responsible for kicking 'teachers' out of the school system (I could care less). http://www.academia.org/index.html
"...I simply was speaking about ATV and land use and you have turned this into a person attack based on prejudice generaizations that are clearly an unwarented defimation of character. Not that I really care what you think of me I just think its important how childish these sarcastic statements about my inteligence are and how much they illistrate your own concept of age having no relation to maturity. Maybe you should criticize my spelling in your reply to this. Yes I will agree I cant spell excelently im sure there are typos in this response......"
The problem is that you are not referring to "atv and land use" in an intelligent manner which others can agree with or emulate. It's as simple as that and you shouldn't take it personally....unless you still insist on defending that position.
"...I already told you they arent going to get permission on paper....."
Then you can't ride there, my friend![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] Do I have to explain the same LAWS you already know "ver batim" in your heart?
"...The world is full of dishonest people who take no responsibility for their actions and are sue happy make it harder for all of us...."
***News Flash***:
There are a lot of people who take absolutely no responsibility for their actions; yet don't 'sue' anyone.....YOU <u>ARE</u> ONE OF THEM !!!!
"...I never deny that im not doing somthing wrong. Ive been arrested on my dirtbike and I didnt get <u>mad</u> at the cop. I knew what I was doing was wrong and I gave him no trouble because he was doing his job...."
(lol)!!!!
Is this the "new-age" way of justifying your actions? Every time you get caught at something (right up to the time they put you in jail)...<u>you</u> don't get "mad" at the leo officer making the arrest....and in doing so, this makes one <u>less</u> accountable for the act itself !!! What a concept!!! Be "forgiving" of those upholding the law.....yet refuse to abide by the law itself!
"....Because of these people who dont take personal responsibility and sue mcdonalds for making them fat or burning them with coffie (hmm coffie is supposed to be hot). IBM will never take that legal risk....."
So there is a legal risk involved for the landowner...yet you feel that <u>they</u> should know throgh "osmosis" that you will not sue them...yet everyone else just "might"....(and if that does happen...."who cares"....as IBM is just another greedy corporation that your teachers have taught you to despise <u>anyways)</u>.
"...Nobody really has a problem with it because if technically im knowingly breaking the law they take no chance of me being one of those sue happy people and taking from them moneys i dont deserve..."
(lol!!!) It is freaking unbelievable how you young people have been taught to somehow "justify" whatever action suits you! By god, I think I'll just ride wherever I see fit!. Signs, permission, or not...it's all about being "nice" to the cops if i get caught and simply not suing the landowner if I get hurt!!! What a deal!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img].
"...More sarcasm instead of an honest discution of opinions..."
My friend, you don't even get the point here that good sarcasm is completely 'lost' on you anyways!.
"...I would be glad to be part of somthing pushing for better legislation but I honestly dont have the time at this point in my life nor do people take me seriously because of my age which will limit my finantial backing If I attempt to be proactive..."
Heeeere we go.
No time....no money....no advanced age. If I have to shoot down each of these arguments individually...we'll be here all day. I'm just going to chalk this one down to the naieveness of youth and give it to you (must be that what Dragginbut has said above has absolutely no effect on you, obviously).
"... On the same plane.. why are you complaining about the over liberal teachers and not doing anything about it. Be proactive. Hypocritic just like i stated before".
You can try and change the subject....I just won't let you. I could list all the manners in which i have supported this sport these past 6 years including youth atv safety training, more club memberships than I can count, wasting time on the internet trying to educate guys like yourself, attending meetings in the state capitol, etc.; etc.
Yeah, I'm a "hypocrite".....and darn proud of it. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
"....Because the club is full and closed to new members I already looked into it. And anytime I hear about any type of petition or anything I always do what I can. But in the meantime my youth and the point in my life when I have time to ride is withering away...."
LOL!!!!!
Did you just see "Easy Rider" or was it "Lost in America"?
"...easy for you to say we should sacrifice what you didnt have to...."
You complain that I don't appreciate that you appreciate that life isn't "fair"....<u>then slide right back into <u>crying</u> about it !</u> Make up your mind, my friend ! (lol) [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] Sorry, but I'll have to continue my response to this some other time. Hey, it's been a great window into the mind of today's youth, if nothing else!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img].(or do other riders this guy's age feel differently?).
"...How can you speak about being so true to the importance of self responsibility when you blaitently blame the public for problems in raising your children...."
I never mention "my" children or blamed the public about anything.
"...Beyond obscine information, which everybody agrees has no place here, its YOUR responsibility as a parent to take care of your kids...."
I have no idea what "obscene information" refers to nor (again) did I ever refer to raising anybody's kids
"...If they see things or read things you dont want them to that is your fault not anybody elses. You cant expect others to nuture and raise your children thats your job. should we censor everything??..."
Again, I have no idea what you are talking about in reference to my comments; nor can I see where "censorship" has absolutely anything to do with what we are talking about.
"..;.I guess you should have defected to communist russia. because they seem to have the same values. Censorship for all. Just because my opinion is different then yours gives you no right to deny it a place on these forms..."
If crying "censorship" is the best defense you have here....."
"...Thats why we live in america. I can agree to disagree with you and thats as far as it can go because thank god your not making any laws here..."
That is NOT as "far as it can go". Let me give you a little lesson which goes beyond your liberal indoctrination. FACTS are what fuel a good debate....not "feelings" or perceived "rights" nor any foul cries of censorship or discrimination. These are liberal strategies designed to turn attention away from said facts and <u>won't</u> be tolerated here.
"...Yeah im still a kid and your right maturity has nothing to do with age you are a prime example. Enligten me where i whimpered about it being fair that one came out of your rear....."
You seem to think that because us older riders enjoyed access laws which were definitely more permissive in nature, you should to. Thus my reference to "fairness".
"...Think I dont know life isnt fair? Your more then welcome to comment on anything I say but to make assumptions about who I am and deface me without a basis of fact is as immature as it comes. you might as well say your a doodoo head while your at it..."
Again, I am just relating some facts to you that you are obviously unaware of. I am not spoon feeding them to you...you're 19 and I think you can handle them.
"...Now your babling on about liberalism and conservativeism. You make a lot of immature steriotypes of people as a whole. are you prejudice against the youth of america..."
No prejudices here; just a simple talk about those "moral values" you so disgustingly dismissed that old lady for having and obviously something you were taught to resist at every turn.
"....If your socially concerned then I ask you what measures have you taken in your area to further expand the horizions of the teachers in your public school. How involved are you in the PTA or PTO of your district in what lesson plans are approved for your children. it looks like your making a bad example for the rest of the parents out there. Put your money where yur mouth is"
I've discussed this with my wife and find that tackling this MAJOR problem is somewhat like becoming frustrated with off-road subject matter. You can fight it 'alone'; yet you must always seek others in the community who you can actually be proud to stand beside (which is a lot harder than one might think). I support conservative projects in my school system and what the church does with our youth within the community and at school. As in the off-road community, we need more people out there willing to take a stand on this subject; as there are very few within any community who want to be viewed as responsible for kicking 'teachers' out of the school system (I could care less). http://www.academia.org/index.html
"...I simply was speaking about ATV and land use and you have turned this into a person attack based on prejudice generaizations that are clearly an unwarented defimation of character. Not that I really care what you think of me I just think its important how childish these sarcastic statements about my inteligence are and how much they illistrate your own concept of age having no relation to maturity. Maybe you should criticize my spelling in your reply to this. Yes I will agree I cant spell excelently im sure there are typos in this response......"
The problem is that you are not referring to "atv and land use" in an intelligent manner which others can agree with or emulate. It's as simple as that and you shouldn't take it personally....unless you still insist on defending that position.
"...I already told you they arent going to get permission on paper....."
Then you can't ride there, my friend![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] Do I have to explain the same LAWS you already know "ver batim" in your heart?
"...The world is full of dishonest people who take no responsibility for their actions and are sue happy make it harder for all of us...."
***News Flash***:
There are a lot of people who take absolutely no responsibility for their actions; yet don't 'sue' anyone.....YOU <u>ARE</u> ONE OF THEM !!!!
"...I never deny that im not doing somthing wrong. Ive been arrested on my dirtbike and I didnt get <u>mad</u> at the cop. I knew what I was doing was wrong and I gave him no trouble because he was doing his job...."
(lol)!!!!
Is this the "new-age" way of justifying your actions? Every time you get caught at something (right up to the time they put you in jail)...<u>you</u> don't get "mad" at the leo officer making the arrest....and in doing so, this makes one <u>less</u> accountable for the act itself !!! What a concept!!! Be "forgiving" of those upholding the law.....yet refuse to abide by the law itself!
"....Because of these people who dont take personal responsibility and sue mcdonalds for making them fat or burning them with coffie (hmm coffie is supposed to be hot). IBM will never take that legal risk....."
So there is a legal risk involved for the landowner...yet you feel that <u>they</u> should know throgh "osmosis" that you will not sue them...yet everyone else just "might"....(and if that does happen...."who cares"....as IBM is just another greedy corporation that your teachers have taught you to despise <u>anyways)</u>.
"...Nobody really has a problem with it because if technically im knowingly breaking the law they take no chance of me being one of those sue happy people and taking from them moneys i dont deserve..."
(lol!!!) It is freaking unbelievable how you young people have been taught to somehow "justify" whatever action suits you! By god, I think I'll just ride wherever I see fit!. Signs, permission, or not...it's all about being "nice" to the cops if i get caught and simply not suing the landowner if I get hurt!!! What a deal!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img].
"...More sarcasm instead of an honest discution of opinions..."
My friend, you don't even get the point here that good sarcasm is completely 'lost' on you anyways!.
"...I would be glad to be part of somthing pushing for better legislation but I honestly dont have the time at this point in my life nor do people take me seriously because of my age which will limit my finantial backing If I attempt to be proactive..."
Heeeere we go.
No time....no money....no advanced age. If I have to shoot down each of these arguments individually...we'll be here all day. I'm just going to chalk this one down to the naieveness of youth and give it to you (must be that what Dragginbut has said above has absolutely no effect on you, obviously).
"... On the same plane.. why are you complaining about the over liberal teachers and not doing anything about it. Be proactive. Hypocritic just like i stated before".
You can try and change the subject....I just won't let you. I could list all the manners in which i have supported this sport these past 6 years including youth atv safety training, more club memberships than I can count, wasting time on the internet trying to educate guys like yourself, attending meetings in the state capitol, etc.; etc.
Yeah, I'm a "hypocrite".....and darn proud of it. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
"....Because the club is full and closed to new members I already looked into it. And anytime I hear about any type of petition or anything I always do what I can. But in the meantime my youth and the point in my life when I have time to ride is withering away...."
LOL!!!!!
Did you just see "Easy Rider" or was it "Lost in America"?
"...easy for you to say we should sacrifice what you didnt have to...."
You complain that I don't appreciate that you appreciate that life isn't "fair"....<u>then slide right back into <u>crying</u> about it !</u> Make up your mind, my friend ! (lol) [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] Sorry, but I'll have to continue my response to this some other time. Hey, it's been a great window into the mind of today's youth, if nothing else!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img].(or do other riders this guy's age feel differently?).
Apr 25, 2005 | 10:18 AM
#24
Pro Rider
Is old enough to know better, but too young to stop.
Is old enough to know better, but too young to stop.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,681
Likes: 0
From: Northern Virginia, near DC
Long Island NY Impounds
This tet for tat has been interesting... and relates back to the age old conflict between one generation and another. I think it necessary to explain that we old farts know from where you are coming from.. we were kids once.. and thought and acted like a kid. We had our run ins with the law enforcement over things we did. We know the feeling of freedom you get when riding, and the pull of the wild side that it represents. But you also have to understand that we grew up in an entirely different environment.
We didn't have to worry about environmental damage we did. We didn't worry about the bad press it generated, and we didn't have ultra conservative focus groups trying to eliminate something we all loved... these are all symptoms of today and it is going to be your generation that has to deal with it.
One thing that seperates our generation from today's is the respect for and recognition of the limitations placed on a modern society. Be they in regulations, laws etc... I think our generation is a little more mindful of their intent, reasons for their existance, and we do not exude the same propencity towards being selective in which ones we will abide by if it suits our needs, but that is just my humble opinion. Sure, you can find examples of both sides acting out... and when they do, it is our responsibility to take action to curb this activity. You may not agree with Blackballed's approach, as it may come on far too strong for many people, but teh underlying message is relevant, and accurate. In gentler terms, he is saying that as enthusiasts, we need to stop turning our visage away, and support those efforts that are eliminating the bad elements. Not too many people will stand up and lend their voice to this cause. I see this as passion...
The "rules" we all refer to are nothing more than common sense and form a framework from which states have elected to use as a model.
This isn't a situation where just because of your financial status, you don't have to abide by them... The laws apply to everyone. I cannot agree with the premise, so I dismiss the argument. I am glad to hear that you have taken a personal stand and decided to get involved with the local issues. We need more people like you. What we don't need are the ones that feel they don't need to worry about what effect their actions have on our sport as a whole.
We didn't have to worry about environmental damage we did. We didn't worry about the bad press it generated, and we didn't have ultra conservative focus groups trying to eliminate something we all loved... these are all symptoms of today and it is going to be your generation that has to deal with it.
One thing that seperates our generation from today's is the respect for and recognition of the limitations placed on a modern society. Be they in regulations, laws etc... I think our generation is a little more mindful of their intent, reasons for their existance, and we do not exude the same propencity towards being selective in which ones we will abide by if it suits our needs, but that is just my humble opinion. Sure, you can find examples of both sides acting out... and when they do, it is our responsibility to take action to curb this activity. You may not agree with Blackballed's approach, as it may come on far too strong for many people, but teh underlying message is relevant, and accurate. In gentler terms, he is saying that as enthusiasts, we need to stop turning our visage away, and support those efforts that are eliminating the bad elements. Not too many people will stand up and lend their voice to this cause. I see this as passion...
The "rules" we all refer to are nothing more than common sense and form a framework from which states have elected to use as a model.
This isn't a situation where just because of your financial status, you don't have to abide by them... The laws apply to everyone. I cannot agree with the premise, so I dismiss the argument. I am glad to hear that you have taken a personal stand and decided to get involved with the local issues. We need more people like you. What we don't need are the ones that feel they don't need to worry about what effect their actions have on our sport as a whole.
Apr 25, 2005 | 11:03 AM
#25
Range Rover
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Long Island NY Impounds
I couldn't read all of this, it was too much. But don't get on CATV's case too much because it is NYS that has created these attitudes. I'm more than twice his age and feel somewhat the same way. There are some groups in NY dedicated to ATV's but their progress has been minimal. My opinion is that NYS would rather just see ATV's go away, but they are very interested in milking the ATV community for all the taxation they can. I believe that NY has something like the 5th most ATV's of any state. It ain't going away!!! We pay reg of $10 annually, going to $25 this year. All ATV's regardless of where you ride will need to be reg'd. For that $$$, we are going to get a study from the state this year IF public riding lands are necessary. Yes they are, there the study is done!!! I live in Buffalo, the nearest legal riding areas are 2 hours away. That sucks. I actually go to PA to ride. But riding is so inconvenient that I'm thinking of bailing on ATV's this year. It is way too much hassle to ride here.
Now snowmobilers, NYS kisses their butts. Half their reg $$$ goes back to trails. It is amazing how much state $$$ goes into trails around the Buffalo area. Up to $500,000 some years. But yes, sledders are better organized that ATV'ers. Maybe the sledding sport has more glamor to it, where as ATV'ers are looked upon as "always tresspassing vehicles" that tear up the land and you can hear them a 1/2 mile away with their straight thru mufflers. That doesn't help us.
Lastly, Buffalo is in Erie County. In the winter you can ride in one county park, 10 minutes from my house. That's great!!! So this year, because of a county budget crisis, they closed the park to everyone. Just one more bullet into the ATV'ers riding heart
Now snowmobilers, NYS kisses their butts. Half their reg $$$ goes back to trails. It is amazing how much state $$$ goes into trails around the Buffalo area. Up to $500,000 some years. But yes, sledders are better organized that ATV'ers. Maybe the sledding sport has more glamor to it, where as ATV'ers are looked upon as "always tresspassing vehicles" that tear up the land and you can hear them a 1/2 mile away with their straight thru mufflers. That doesn't help us.
Lastly, Buffalo is in Erie County. In the winter you can ride in one county park, 10 minutes from my house. That's great!!! So this year, because of a county budget crisis, they closed the park to everyone. Just one more bullet into the ATV'ers riding heart
Apr 25, 2005 | 11:23 AM
#26
Pro Rider
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
Long Island NY Impounds
(refferencing dragginbutt's comment above):
Per 'usual'...one of the most eloquent and well thought out summaries regarding this subject which has ever been written. If you can't bear to hear it from me...<u>please</u> listen to somebody that you "can't" argue with. Many of us older riders care very little for what happens in our lifetimes at this point in our lives..yet care very much that we at least tried to bring forward a new generation of informed community members who might carry the same torch.
I'm attracted to this sport because I think it affords an opportunity for families to discover a common interest; gets MORE people exposed to the outdoor experience like never before (young/old/disabled) and that it forcibly unifies environmental concerns with the needs of the populace as a whole (ideally).
To summarize....there are a number of us out here who simply feel that building a riding legacy for our grandchildren is a lot more important than waitng for others to gain that same appreciation (which we've been doing since the 80's).
The time is now for this community to either gain some appreciation for what is happening around them or to start being divided into those who care and those who don't. There is far to much at stake to proceed in any other manner and especially when "holding hands" has produced absolutely NO results thus far.
Per 'usual'...one of the most eloquent and well thought out summaries regarding this subject which has ever been written. If you can't bear to hear it from me...<u>please</u> listen to somebody that you "can't" argue with. Many of us older riders care very little for what happens in our lifetimes at this point in our lives..yet care very much that we at least tried to bring forward a new generation of informed community members who might carry the same torch.
I'm attracted to this sport because I think it affords an opportunity for families to discover a common interest; gets MORE people exposed to the outdoor experience like never before (young/old/disabled) and that it forcibly unifies environmental concerns with the needs of the populace as a whole (ideally).
To summarize....there are a number of us out here who simply feel that building a riding legacy for our grandchildren is a lot more important than waitng for others to gain that same appreciation (which we've been doing since the 80's).
The time is now for this community to either gain some appreciation for what is happening around them or to start being divided into those who care and those who don't. There is far to much at stake to proceed in any other manner and especially when "holding hands" has produced absolutely NO results thus far.
Apr 25, 2005 | 12:17 PM
#27
Pro Rider
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 0
From: CT/NJ
Long Island NY Impounds
Im not in total disagreement with things you guys said but you turned it into a personal attack on me and my generation. Were you not the same generation as all the liberal hippies. Its no different then me calling you a hippie because you were alive in the 60s. I highly doubt thats a title you would wear with pride...
oh yeah and that whole I didnt mention my kids thing ....
"I am sorry that there are only a few of us on here who won't allow you to state this and get away with it. We <EM>care</EM> about what our children read and do not want them emulating what you propose"
I'd say that is you talking about your children hence the OUR children. And maybe the reason there are so few of you is because not everybody agrees with you.
I do understand you wish to build a riding legacy in your area and all im saying is that there never will be a legacy because our state will never open riding lands and being such a small populated state theres less and less open land every day. Whether I may break a few laws I dont feel im doing anybody harm and im always polite and curtious to people because thats the type of person I am. I think when people come into contact with me on my ATV I am a perfectly fine embasador for the sport in CT. And i dont ride on privately held land without permission its land owned by corperations that are not using it so its not an individual's land.
Riding gas lines and power lines is common practice here. I know a man who works for North East Utilities and he informed me many of the guys like the fact that us riders keep the truck paths somewhat clear so they can get to the lines when they need to do work on them. The only times there is trouble is finding a place to park. once your on the lines nobody really cares.
oh yeah and that whole I didnt mention my kids thing ....
"I am sorry that there are only a few of us on here who won't allow you to state this and get away with it. We <EM>care</EM> about what our children read and do not want them emulating what you propose"
I'd say that is you talking about your children hence the OUR children. And maybe the reason there are so few of you is because not everybody agrees with you.
I do understand you wish to build a riding legacy in your area and all im saying is that there never will be a legacy because our state will never open riding lands and being such a small populated state theres less and less open land every day. Whether I may break a few laws I dont feel im doing anybody harm and im always polite and curtious to people because thats the type of person I am. I think when people come into contact with me on my ATV I am a perfectly fine embasador for the sport in CT. And i dont ride on privately held land without permission its land owned by corperations that are not using it so its not an individual's land.
Riding gas lines and power lines is common practice here. I know a man who works for North East Utilities and he informed me many of the guys like the fact that us riders keep the truck paths somewhat clear so they can get to the lines when they need to do work on them. The only times there is trouble is finding a place to park. once your on the lines nobody really cares.
Apr 25, 2005 | 12:57 PM
#28
Pro Rider
Is old enough to know better, but too young to stop.
Is old enough to know better, but too young to stop.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,681
Likes: 0
From: Northern Virginia, near DC
Long Island NY Impounds
CT, I can't see where disagreeing with a person's opinion becomes a personal attack... I at least didn't mean it as such. Most of the other rantings were originally stated as a missive on the current state of our sport, and not directed at you personally. I think you may have taken it a little too personal and then it sort of spiralled out of control.
I can see that you are defending your generation.. that is OK. I can respect that.. but please note the difference in outlooks that have been presented here. BBalled and me are focused on the bigger issues.. while I get the impression that you are only looking at your personal take on the subject. And that is OK. The important thing is you stood up and made your voice heard. But don't take on a fight that really wasn't there in the beginning.
We can argue this until we run out of air to breath..... nothing will change our outlook that there needs to be more self dicipline and responsibility exuded by ALL generations. Yours is not under attack. In fact if you look at this from a different perspective, our comments have recruited another voice to join the fight. By adding your voice to the discussion, our box is expanded.
The real challenge is for people like yourself to take that same passion and defensive posture, and turn it into something positive. It sounds like you are doing that. Have you ever recruited your buddies to help join their voices to the fight? Have you ever applied peer pressure to make a change... it is exactly what BBalled was advocating.. only his wording was a little different.
We need you and everyone else to get passionate about this sport. We need you to reach a point where you are ready and able to say enough is enough and take personal action... Because like BBalled said, if you do not.. if your peers do not....the generations that come after you are going to suffer greatly... This is YOUR fight. and our legacy to you.
I just wantd to add on the IBM deal. They are a major corporation that have workers that live in the community. In short, they want to be good citzens and neighbors too. Did you know that there are several programs available that could prove useful in convincing IBM to join with the state in creation of a riding area? There may be a way for the state to assume the liability while working in partnership with IBM. It is worth looking into.
I can see that you are defending your generation.. that is OK. I can respect that.. but please note the difference in outlooks that have been presented here. BBalled and me are focused on the bigger issues.. while I get the impression that you are only looking at your personal take on the subject. And that is OK. The important thing is you stood up and made your voice heard. But don't take on a fight that really wasn't there in the beginning.
We can argue this until we run out of air to breath..... nothing will change our outlook that there needs to be more self dicipline and responsibility exuded by ALL generations. Yours is not under attack. In fact if you look at this from a different perspective, our comments have recruited another voice to join the fight. By adding your voice to the discussion, our box is expanded.
The real challenge is for people like yourself to take that same passion and defensive posture, and turn it into something positive. It sounds like you are doing that. Have you ever recruited your buddies to help join their voices to the fight? Have you ever applied peer pressure to make a change... it is exactly what BBalled was advocating.. only his wording was a little different.
We need you and everyone else to get passionate about this sport. We need you to reach a point where you are ready and able to say enough is enough and take personal action... Because like BBalled said, if you do not.. if your peers do not....the generations that come after you are going to suffer greatly... This is YOUR fight. and our legacy to you.
I just wantd to add on the IBM deal. They are a major corporation that have workers that live in the community. In short, they want to be good citzens and neighbors too. Did you know that there are several programs available that could prove useful in convincing IBM to join with the state in creation of a riding area? There may be a way for the state to assume the liability while working in partnership with IBM. It is worth looking into.
Apr 26, 2005 | 08:30 AM
#29
Pro Rider
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
Long Island NY Impounds
I want to apoligize if what I've brought forward here prevents another common trespasser from turning over a new leaf (I have seen no evidence of such, yet I'm offering the benefit of the doubt). Yet when simple facts are laid out in no uncertain terms and I still get back how "even the power people love me for keeping their trails up".....you get the feeling that a lot of these kids really DO believe it is their god-given right to ignore signs and/or forego the act of obtaining written permission.
I've asked for other younger riders to step right up here and give "their" take on this simple scenario involving <u>right and wrong</u>....yet not a one of them seems willing to stand up to this guy any more than when they witness their own buddies stray off trail <u>and follow them!</u>.
I'm sorry, but if the concept of 'guilt' or 'shame' doesn't move these kids (and many adults) in any way, shape or form....what's next?
My solution is the kind of heavy fines and impoundments which bring in the needed revenue to not only fix what they destroy (and don't think that the government isn't way ahead of me on this)....but to get the word-of-mouth out there that "punks don't prosper". [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
This is my opinion and my opinion only. I'm just sick of these forums being occupied by riders within the community who darn well influence the younger members in it with their illegal exploits....and sicker yet that too many others within the community don't have the guts to call them on it.
What a mess. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
I've asked for other younger riders to step right up here and give "their" take on this simple scenario involving <u>right and wrong</u>....yet not a one of them seems willing to stand up to this guy any more than when they witness their own buddies stray off trail <u>and follow them!</u>.
I'm sorry, but if the concept of 'guilt' or 'shame' doesn't move these kids (and many adults) in any way, shape or form....what's next?
My solution is the kind of heavy fines and impoundments which bring in the needed revenue to not only fix what they destroy (and don't think that the government isn't way ahead of me on this)....but to get the word-of-mouth out there that "punks don't prosper". [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
This is my opinion and my opinion only. I'm just sick of these forums being occupied by riders within the community who darn well influence the younger members in it with their illegal exploits....and sicker yet that too many others within the community don't have the guts to call them on it.
What a mess. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
May 4, 2005 | 11:23 PM
#30
Pro Rider
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,689
Likes: 0
Long Island NY Impounds
Thats harsh man, im sorry to hear that. I live in Rocky Point, NY in Suffolk, we should go rididng when you get your quad back, LOTS of places to ride by me. I got stopped by a cop once he let me go though, but now when i see a cop when im riding on the roads i just run their not allowed to chase you because it puts the rider in a dangerous position [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] lmfao.
