1) The DNR does not require the approval of the public or the local "politions" to do their mandated jobs.
2) Unacceptable becuase???? Im not saying they are right - but there is a vast range of conditions in that rather swampy area. I can see where large areas are not appropriete but can agree that there is more oppertunity then what the DNR planned called for. Lets be fair and agree that not ALL of the area is right for OHV's.
3) The cost to build bridges and reroute trails can be extraordinary in some cases. Each trail needs to be evaluated. Some may be just to expensive to make right. Others may take only minor adjustment.
4) Yes the DNR gets new equipment - dont be so jealous. It takes away from the what is important in this particular debate.
5) When we interfere with nature - we always end up loosing. Now we have to promote massive deer hunts to cut back the heards of deer that the area cannot support. The over population of deer is what happens when we DONT let nature take its course.

 

Weezy - To be accurate - Beltrami Island Forest resides in 3 countys in northern Minnesota with a combined population over 60,500 for those "home" counties alone - according to the 2000 US census report. And I'm willing to bet that the number of ATV's in those three countys are about as popular as 4x4 trucks based on what I see when I'm up there.

To get a regional viewpoint - if you consider the population of only the counties that neighbor the 3 Beltrami forest counties - that number jumps to over 238,700 residents.

Out of 238,700 regional residents - I expected an even higher turn out on a issue that impacts the region as much as this does. Not less than 1.3%.

Having 2800 turn out is good. But imagine even a 5% turn out! That would rock the boys down in St.Paul

 

daty you are correct about the deer population now even though we getting off the subject how the population is overwealiming it would have been nice when the winters were real bad to have seen more being done even though the next 2 years we didn't have much of a deer population but they were all very nice big healthy deer. and i see when you crunch the numbers how it may not look like there was alot of people that went there but not everyone cares about this subject there are alot of people who live in towns and cities and never even driven an atv. warroad warriors high school hockey is in the section 8A tournaments (i think they are 29-0-2 so go warriors) and it was on a thursday night and lasted till later and with the majority of people having to get up early for work and driving farther distances it wasn't convenient for their jobs i know i was draggin butt the next day at work. and the hockey arena wouldn't have fit anymore people then what they had they would have had to start turning people away due to fire hazards and just no room ther isn't anywhere up here that would accomodate any more people then what we had. and no the dnr doesn't require the approval but wouldn't it be nice if they would work with the local politicians and find a common ground? yes i do agree that not all of the trails are fit for atv's and i am not jeleous about the dnr getting decent equipment to do their job but some of that money could go towards building these bridges and shelters. north of here up at the dnr station there is a plot about 40 acres that the dnr seeds into corn for the deer in the wildlife refuge and they got a brand new front wheel assist ford new holland tractor probably about 145 horse thats just a lil overkill in my books.

 

I don't know Whodat... in my neck of the woods, where there are literally millions of people living in my county... a turnout of 2500 people at a public hearing sends a pretty big message to the people holding the debate. I would hesitate to downplay the importance of their attendance.

As for trail building etc... I thin kit safe to say that in many cases, what passes as trails today are just the byproduct of many people out exploring the woods, and others joining in. There probably was little if no thought given to the design, or construction. Today, we know a heck of a lot more about the science of building trails that can accomodate multi use, and do it in ways that are ecologically sound.

The problem is that the three big players here, DNR, ECO warriors, and enthusiasts are spending thier precious time and $ fighting it out in court for control.... IF they could just sit down and acknowledge each other's point of view, and ask the other side to work with them to develope new techniques and procedures, and help plan the reconstruction and developement of new trails when appropriate, the process could move forward, and each could gain ground. Imagine, the envirnonmentalists helping the DNR layout and design a trail that is eco safe. What a wonderful opportunity to be involved and ensure success.

The problem is that this utopian thought requires that egos be placed in their pockets, and a constructive attitude be put in it's place.

As an avid ATV enthusiast, I admit that there are places on the trails that are eco disasters. So instead of trying to close all trails and lableing all motorised traffic as destructive, why not help us fix the problems. We are willing to do that. IN MN there are local riding clubs that volunteer to build bridges over fragile environments along the trails... Certainly there are professional organizations today like th etrails America orgainization that do know how to correctly build trails in ways that are friendly to the environment, and would support both motorized and non motorized recreation. We don't want to be seen as the enemy.. and we are trying desperately to get the environmental factions, and the DNR, who is tasked by law to administer it all to sit down in non hostile cooperation and get it done. This may mean that some trails are too fragile to support motorized traffic. OK, then make them foot traffic only... but help replace them with trails that can support motorized recreation.

Together I think both groups can coexist... and when you think about it, the DNR and environmentalists are here to meet the needs of all of our citizens. Not just the elite few.... ALL persons have the right to enjoy our natural wonders... the only differences we have, are in the manner in which it is done.

 

I beleive the problem comes from the political manuevering.
Start with - ban all OHV's from all public property.
Save the children - ban all children from ATV's
Save Mother Earth - OHV's are destructive to Mother Earth
Save the whales
Save the owls
Save the trees

Personally, I think its a mental health issue. ATV banning is NOT the biggest problem these people have.

 

AMEN to that... I think if everyone would stop giving money to all the save the "flavor of the month" causes, these people would have to all go out and get real jobs... Maybe then, we could get some peace...

 

very well put DB if we could all just get along we could probably get this to work. i am willing to get my hands dirty on the weekends in the summer and help build trails and bridges so i can enjoy my sport i am not afraid of a lil dirt and work as are many many people out there and i respect the thoughts of the environmentalists cause i love the great outdoors to but we it takes a few groups that see vastly different viewpoints to work together for this to work and some of the hardcore environmentalists absolutely don't want any atv's at all they see them as evil but somehow we gotta work through that

 

Sadly, enviiromental activisim has become a stay at home mans/womens dream job. All you need is a telephone and a yellow pages to call on businesses and ask for financial support to "save the ______" . "we would certainly like to list your company as a contributor to our cause and not have to put you in the category of not __________ friendly".

The MRR (minnesotians for responsibile recreation) started with 3 women who didnt want to work "for the man" and started their own organization to solicit funding. They all live in huge homes, drive SUV's and ship their brats off to day-care. To say they don't do it for the money would be a outright lie. They continue to be one of the more difficult groups to deal with as this fight is their jobs - their income - their pay checks. There is no loosing the battle, there will not be a end to thier taking advantage of companies and individuals whom they blackmail into contributing. There is no compromise. Its all about the money. The money goes into the bank as contributions and comes out of the bank as pay checks. Why would they consider any compromise? This pays way to good.

 

I can't argue with that... Other than hope that people wise up to these antics. Hopefully someone will stand up and ask where the funding goes?

Being in Washington DC, I have seen this non profit industry taken to a whole new level. They spend money in ways that even Saddam Hussein couldn't think of... Talk about an "axis of evil".... and our government gives them special tax status to boot...

 

In todays paper, and a bit on the lighter side.
article


Posted on Sun, Feb. 27, 2005

RYAN BAKKEN COLUMN: 2,200 in one place -- and it wasn't a lutefisk feed in Park River



Ten days ago in Warroad, Minn., about 2,200 people gathered for a public hearing about ATV use.

Except for one or two crackpots, the entire crowd opposed the Department of Natural Resources' attempts at closing trails in the Beltrami Island State Forest to four-wheelers. This was an amazing display of grassroots involvement.

It was an even more amazing display of a galvanizing issue. Such big crowds in Roseau County are usually reserved for more important events, such as high school hockey games.

You need to think of this turnout in terms of per capita. Proportionately, this is a lot bigger turnout than collected to hear President George W. Bush's talk in Fargo. Of course, some would argue, ATVs have a clearer message than our president.

You have to admit - 2,200 is a big crowd. I covered the Grand Forks City Council for two years and never had 2,200 total people show up at all the public meetings I attended.

If you use the per capita comparison with the ATV crowd in Roseau County, I can think of only two examples where a Grand Forks gathering would be equivalent.

Once was when Cher came to The Al and showed that a 50-something can be sexier than Jessica, Britney, Christina and Beyonce combined.

The other time is every other weekend in the winter, when people show up at The Ralph for the finest in college hockey and the privilege of buying $5 beers.

This got me thinking about what other regional events could draw comparable crowds to the 2,200 people that showed up in the dead of winter in Warroad, a town of 1,600.

Here are some possibilities:

• In East Grand Forks, a tag-team wrestling match between the warring factions on the City Council.

• In Thompson, a proposal to pave the streets for free.

• In Reynolds, any attempt to be annexed by Thompson.

• In Park River, a lutefisk feed.

• In Minto, a polish sausage feed.

• In Hillsboro, the pelting of tax-dodging American Crystal Sugar corporate officers with rotten tomatoes.

• In Grafton, any citywide vote to build dikes or ban indoor smoking or ban smoking on dikes.

• In Devils Lake, a dunking booth featuring members of The Friends of the Sheyenne, with the booth in the middle of the lake and no available lifejackets.

• In Bemidji, Babe the Blue Ox giving birth.

• In Grand Forks, the opening of a water park. Any water park.

So, our congratulations to northwestern Minnesota residents who showed up in force. The mere presence of that many dissenters will change the DNR's plan.

As I close, a quick memo to the DNR: Don't mess with the snowmobile rules, either.