Be tough for a career warrior having to take unhonorable orders from someone with five draft deferments. But that's why we have a volunteer military now paid more at entry level than most college degrees facilitate. Pay them enough and lower socioeconomic segments will provide cannon fodder without fear of political careerist children facing conscription.

 

I liked that, I mean really liked that!!

 

I dont think that was directed towards me, but figure hey why not address it anyhow lol.

Its actually pretty annoying to me how so many constantly attack gw like he actually is running anything, and so few can actually see that our two political groups (yea two since they surpress any others into not being a factor due to the ability of the rep and dem parties to raise so much $$$ and the power they hold) are little more than one big group of hungry sharks with sligltly different colorings.

So yea I voted for GW (both elections) and not for the same reasons so many others may have either. Sure he is an interesting character, but more importantly the agenda of the other party running was more concerning, and somehow it just seems like a safeguard to not have one party in a majority in both houses and the presidents office as well. And as a side benefit the republican party tends to side with citizen access to open lands, and motorized sports etc.

And as far as ufo's go I can only wish (just like an abused child fanticising about a way out) that their out there because that would be a glimmer of hope, or a way out etc.

So unless one can see that both parties are involved in most of the unwanted actions against americans, and that the much more powerfull people behind the presidents office (both in politics, and just overly wealthy business and families etc) are truely running things, and that the typical american remains almost powerless to make a difference thru the normal methods, and that most americans are too damn "fat and happy" to be bothered anyhow, and that most seem content to choose sides between rep and dem parties and ignore the realities that befront them, and that the continue errosion of our constitutional rights will snow ball until its too late, and finally that each and every individual American citizen has a personal responsibility to stand up for their freedoms and their country at "any costs" in order to protect our country, our families, and their future in order to ensure that the USA remains the best country in the world, well then basically your throwing away everything that has made this country great, and is being taken away.

We have a right to run for public office, support who we really choose (not who our job, union, or father tells us to), protest, organize and make our opinions known in any legal way we choose, but the problem seems to be that the majority of us only choose to not be bothered with the whole process and just rely on others to "take care of us". Well I hope you like how the patriot act takes care of you, and even takes care of your rights to protest the act itself.

 

Great comments, and I will try to reply In order.

Our Govt isnt trying to bring anything, but rather take away and control on a global basis, and justifying it by means of calling it something else.

Good take on that one, and just more spin by those with a direct agenda to supress our rights.

Please everyone remember to always respect authority, but never ever forget to question it 100%.

There seems to be a strong push by out govt to cause our children to be little robots, and clean them of their beliefs (religious and otherwise) and imagination or ability to dream. There isnt enough room in this thread to get into this completely but ever think there is a reason your 6yr old acts more adult than most 17yr olds did in the past? Ever question why it seems school age children are constantly on the go, and are having less and less influence from their parents, and more and more from the public school system?

Then again if your taught from a young age that everything is black and white, and they are accustomed to a way of thinking that doesnt encourage free thinking, imagination, or the questioning of authority at any time then this entire thread could be thought of being completely different than its true intent (to alert to the unusual and unaceptable findings of NBC).

 

More unpleasant news about the administration again today...spying on our own citizens, by the NSA...sounds more and more like the old russia, not the good old USA. I wonder what government agengies arent spying on us?

One good piece of news today....the unpatriot act is in trouble...good news for all americans and america.
Sen Fiengold had some good comments on it, and it makes for interesting reading.
text here


Published on Friday, December 16, 2005 by CommonDreams.org
Remarks on Ending Debate on Reauthorization of the USA Patriot Act
by US Sen. Russ Feingold


Senate Floor Statement, December 16, 2005

Mr. President, on Wednesday evening, I laid out in detail my concerns about the Patriot Act reauthorization bill that we are now considering on the floor. In its current form, I cannot support the conference report, and I cannot consent to limit debate on it. The leaders of this Congress need to figure out a way to change this report to address the important civil liberties issues that I and other Senators from both sides of the aisle have discussed over the past three days.

This morning we saw an astounding story in the New York Times. Since 2002, the government has been reportedly wiretapping the international phone and email conversations of hundreds, even thousands of people inside the Untied States, without wiretap orders. You want to talk about abuses? I can’t imagine a more shocking example of an abuse of power, to eavesdrop on American citizens without first getting a court order based on some evidence that they are possibly criminals, terrorists or spies. Mr. President, it is truly astonishing to read that this Administration would go this far beyond the bounds of the statutes and the Constitution. We as an institution have the duty, the obligation, to get to the bottom of this.

I hope that this morning’s revelation drives home to people that this body must be absolutely vigilant in our oversight of government power. And I don’t want to hear again from the Attorney General or anyone on this floor that this government has shown it can be trusted to use the power we give it with restraint and care. This shocking revelation ought to send a chill down the spine of every Senator and every American.

With that in mind, let me review my main concerns about this conference report.

First, section 215. Remember, this is the section where Attorney General Ashcroft once said that librarians concerned about the privacy rights of their patrons were “hysterical.” But then the current Attorney General conceded at his nomination hearing in the Senate Judiciary that some changes would be justified. Unfortunately, the Administration was not willing to make real changes to the provision to protect the rights and freedoms of innocent Americans.

The other night, I described in detail the evolution of this provision through the legislative process. The bottom line is this – the Senate bill had a three prong test requiring some connection between the records sought and a person suspected of being a terrorist or spy. The conference report abandoned that connection and instead relies on a standard of relevance to an intelligence investigation. That is pretty much an “anything goes” standard that fails to protect the records of law-abiding Americans. There is no requirement in this conference report that will prevent government fishing expeditions. Read the provision and it is as plain as day. The three prong test has been turned into three examples of relevance. They are not protections at all against government overreaching.

The provisions of the bill relating to National Security Letters are also seriously deficient. There is no requirement that the records sought under that authority, which doesn’t involve a court at all, have some connection to a suspected terrorist or spy. The judicial review that the conference report allows after the fact, of the NSL itself and the mandatory gag order, is a mirage. After what the Times reported this morning, no one in this body should be comfortable with the government having this kind of unreviewable power.

Finally, there is the issue of so-called sneak and peek searches, when the government secretly enters and searches someone’s home. The question here is when the government has to notify someone that a search has taken place. The Senate bill allowed seven days for the government to get back to the court and justify continued delay in providing notice of a sneak and peek search. The conference report, unfortunately, permits 30-day delays. Some have argued that the difference between a week and a month is not that big a deal. It is a big deal, Mr. President. We are talking about an important constitutional right, the Fourth Amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. No one in this body should take that right lightly, and I think most people would agree that having to wait thirty days to find out your home has been secretly searched is a very big deal.

So this conference report is inadequate and it should not be passed. I believe it will not pass. So let me talk for a minute about what happens next if, as I expect, the cloture motion fails. Do those who oppose the conference report want the Patriot Act to expire? Of course not. It is false to suggest that we do, and it is shameful to threaten that that is what will happen if the Senate does not approve this conference report. The only way that the Patriot Act will expire at the end of this year is if the proponents of the conference report, in this body or the other body, block alternative reauthorization bills that can easily pass with widespread, bipartisan support. Now is not the time for brinksmanship or threats. Now is the time to do the right thing for the American people and for the constitutional rights and freedoms that make our country great.

It is becoming more and more clear that this conference report cannot pass. So it is time to figure out what can pass. I submit that the Senate bill is the consensus that we seek. We should pass it again, as we did by unanimous consent before, and send it to the other body. And we should with one voice call on the House to pass that bill and send it to the President for signature. That should have happened months ago and it is what should happen today.

Mr. President, I am very proud to be part of a bipartisan coalition working together to strengthen protections for civil liberties in the Patriot Act. I think the demonstration of bipartisanship on this floor over the last few days has been remarkable. I remember well a hearing on the SAFE Act in the last Congress when the Senator from Idaho, Senator Craig, was still on the Judiciary Committee. He said something that struck me at the time and has stayed with me since. I don’t have his exact words here, but he basically said that the Patriot Act will not be reauthorized without addressing the issues we raised in the SAFE Act. He was making a prediction and a promise then. And soon I believe we will see that he was right.

We have stayed together ever since our bill was first introduced. We knew the time would come when we would have to take a stand. And now we have. We are united today, as we were then. This is not a partisan issue. This is an American issue. This is a constitutional issue. We can come together to give the government the tools it needs to fight terrorism and protect the rights and freedoms of innocent citizens. And we can do that before the end of this year. But first, we must keep this inadequate conference report from becoming law by voting No on cloture.

I yield the floor.

Russ Feingold is a US Senator from Wisconsin. In a crucial vote later Friday, the Patriot Act's Senate supporters were not able to get the 60 votes needed to overcome a filibuster by Sens. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., and Larry Craig, R-Idaho, and their allies. The final vote was 52-47.

 

Maybe they are watching, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Actually it was interesting to see how the recent events played out in regard to the patriot act being extended, and the NSA abuses of the constitution etc after considering our little thread here.

 

I thought the interesting part was a standing US president going on national media to admit he had intentionally broken US laws and has every intent of continuing to do so. We're beginning to resemble a dark ages monarchy more than a constitutional republic.

~They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~

Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

 

Well said!!!

I have just one problem though, and thats believing that the only official (elected or otherwise) with knowledge of these things happening in the first place was Bush. I continue to think that there is no way is one man alone could be doing all these things, and that it only makes sense that there are a whole lot of people (politicians and others) directly involved, and that these activities not only cross party lines, but also every other line I can think of.

So unless we are to believe that GW actually is running the entire country by himself then we have consider just how many people there are out there that not only cant be trusted, but will continue to push these same agendas long after the current president has retired from office.

Point is that blaming one person is fine for most because it allows us to continue to live in denial and move on with our seemingly petty lives, but it also allows the others to continue their attempts to turn our country into the "dark ages monarchy" thats described above. We have to look at what is happening with the big picture and not look for the easy way out, and that means looking at things like this just like any other criminal act (AKA breaking the law) and investigating to find all the co conspirators (members of either party, the political contributors who benefit from these actions, members of any level of law enforcement or inteligence, and any other corporation or individual who is involved. Until that happens were only making ourselves feel better (or worse for some) by so simply pointing the finger at one man.

 

Looks like some dont know when to quit.

Guess they believe we really are little more than a bunch of morons who's only purpose is to support their whole scheme.

Bush says leaking spy program a ‘shameful act’

President vows to continue domestic eavesdropping


Full Story

 

Why not? The general public is unable to find time for anything other than spectator sports, reality shows and demanding more money for unskilled labor. As long as someone says they'll 'protect' them, beer & chips are far more important than civil liberties. The general public, I prefer sheeple, is a bunch of morons.