lol....yeah no kidding! the future isn't looking too promising as of right now tho.

 

You have limits on what you consider invasive, others have different limits. I could care less about the Gov't knowing what I'm buying Granny for Xmas, there's probably a computer program somewhere that has already calculated a good guess based on the things I've bought her for Xmas the last 10 years.

The problem with assessing the amount of gov't intervention today is that there is nothing to prevent the noose from tightening. How many laws are created each year vs. laws repealed?? Something considered legal today could be outlawed tomorrow if there isn't enough "crime" to keep the machine running. There will never be an end to welfare or crime, too many jobs depend on it. If everyone stopped speeding tomorrow, tens of thousands of cops could be out of work. I'd bet dollars to donuts that they'd find other "traffic crimes" to enforce instead of decreasing management's responsibility/pay to reflect a downsized police force.

Regarding Iraq as a religous war, that's the foundation for everything we've done in the ME. Fundamental Islam REQUIRES the slaughter of infidels. There is no diversity training, if you aren't Muslim, you must die. We help Israel because they are tolerant of Christianity, the rest of them want Christianity off the map. Big oil has it's place in Iraq but the foundation is religous and GW is carrying the Christian torch.

I would not want to live in any other country and I support our troops 100% but I am not blind to history and human nature, Orwell's 1984 should be required reading in public schools.

 

holy crap i have got to stop posting in this forum! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

You all miss the point... we are talking about power, and perception. The parties involved are not beyond the leaking of so called Secrets in order to gain a few points on the most recent opinion poles. These people live and die for a half percentage point. They are not worried about who is hurt, put at risk, or killed as long as they get that half percentage point.

This activity has always, and will continue to always exist. And we will continually see these "leaks" and "unnamed sources" in order to gain power.

If you want to really consider what is scary or not, try thinking about what is going on in the background while the whole world's focus is on this one subject. THAT is a ponderous proposition that will cause many to lose sleep.

 

This is nothinig more than dirty politics. If the Bush administration drops the ball on taking care of Amaricans and we have another 911....they failed. On the other hand, if they keep the measures in place they are spying on Americans and have failed there as well. Danged if you do and danged if you don't, it appears. If you have nothing to hide, who really cares what measures are in place if you, your family, or your fellow american are living in peace without concern of being blown up or being drove into another government facility? It's a dirty government we have, republican AND democrat.....and it seems most are to simple to realize whats going on.
Gary
EDIT...don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of MORE government, we have to much as it is. BUT, a single life is to precious to loose because a suspicious person doing suspicious activity to not being monitored IMO.

 

I'd be curious as to how any administration could promise to stop another attack on the US or understand how a general public could be so stupid as to believe same. Al Qaeda is a cell based organization we (US) devised, unbreakable beyond a second layer, uses human messengers and coded sat phones for communications, transfers money by the oldest known method - human money changers with centuries of reputation riding on confidentiality and the US has how many thousands of miles of border? If they were stupid enough to again use aircraft, an American Express card will charter just about anything wet or dry with only a flight plan required for anonymity. Just curious.

 

Its not that the dems are any better than the republicans. They both are beholden to the media and corperate america. As the old saying goes, those who control the past, control the future...those who control today, control the past.
The victors get to rewrite history, such as what the current administration tries to do. Wouldnt matter if democrats were in office, theyd do the same. Just think about the ever changing reasons for the war. Spin used to be known as lies, now they proudly proclaim to control the spin. Mission accomplished, insurgency in the last thoes and so on, are the examples of complete lies, repeated over and over, to control what you percieve.
What the media and the administration wants is for the population to fight about petty issues among ourselves, while they sit back and rake in the bucks, and transferr the wealth.
Think about it...has any legislation come out for the middle class (none that i can think of) In the last 6 years. How about legislation which helps out corporate america(almost everything they do, from energy, to medicare to defense, to wall street ).
If they ever get their hands on the internet, free speach will be gone.
In the same tools used for magic...its called misdirection, and what they want you to watch, is whats already been controlled. If you want to know the truth, you wont find it on the major news outlets. They are controlled by at most...7 people, and one of them lives in china. If theres a story they dont want you to see...its gone.
Its gonna get real interesting to see how they get out of the mess hes in now, with the spying on american citizens. The NYT, sat on the story for a year (they didnt want it coming out before the election), and the only reason it came out now, is because a book is coming soon. So much for being watchdogs for democracy.
So dont forget, ....we're all in this together, and what the media and corp america wants, is for us to fight each other, to keep us occupied and forget about them. They want us spending our energy and emotion, on each other and not challenge them to do their job, and be responive to the population.We need for the politicians to discuss issues and ideas, and solutions...not personalities. We dont need to hear about micheal jackson and oj and robert blake, we need to hear about the issues and the posible solutions.
Why was clintons bj so much in the news...it just wouldnt die, yet whenever bushs record of awol is brought up, it gets silenced right away. Both stories are true, yet one isnt allowed to be discussed.
Why were the color warnings done away with? Once the election was won, there wasnt a use for it anymore. They get people to be fearful, and they seem to confidently provide the solution, but it requires you to give up your liberties. They know they cant take our rights away from us, we have to give them up.

Sorry for the rant, the in laws got me wound up this last weekend...i cant believe how some people cant see whats going on, yet blindly back , and solidly walk in lock step with the powers to be, all the while thinking they are one of the elites, and dont even know they arent.

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: georged
Have to admit I was thinking the same thing, but by the looks of it he is too far gone in believing that he can just sit back thinking about how nothing bad ever happens to good people and watch his country mutate before his very eyes while he strives in his own denial of reality.

I dont mean that in a bad way either and its not an attack, but if everyone just ignored what happens in front of their face and just went about their business like nothing was wrong and couldnt be bothered to lift a finger unless a situation was directly in front of them (sounds like a country on prozak dont it) just how would things be today?

Dont think that there are all kinds of problems in todays world from those who are so passive and just ignore everything allways relying on others to take care of things for them, and/or just accepting everything as being OK and denying anything negative could come of it, or that they can not make a difference.

I see it all the time, and its really popular in our sport for a rider to be totally unwilling to do much of anything to help themselves or their sport and only want to ride without any responsibility for their part.

I have seen what this type of thinking does for offroading, and also for our country, and personally I am not proud of having to call these types part of anything I am involved with, but I also understand that the world is filled with all kinds of people, but only wish there was not so many.

 

Thanx for making my posts look just a little bit shorter [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Good points too!

 

I dont think everyone realizes that, but I also dont believe that all are missing it either. What we really have at hand in the "big picture" is a matrix or web of so many issues and actions happening simultaniously that its almost impossible to keep a handle on even a fraction of it, and I am pretty sure so many people just cant keep up or read and understand enough layers of it, and ultimately just give in (like what I was hinting at in my previous post) and lay down.

Thru relatives, friends and associates I have been blessed (said sarcasticly) with seeing how these various "tricks" work on a local and even state level, and its really scarry to think about how the whole thing multiplies when you throw the Fed into the mix. Thankfully I dont have much experience on the federal level and am able to save a certain amount of sanity, but from what I have seen on the other levels its got to be a mess.

I have to agree with your take on "secrets" and what I call smoke and mirrors which is used extensively, but with the amount of control of the media its really not easy to see much in the background.

And accountability is pretty much gone for ever unless we the people somehow can gain the support of the those who live in denial and make a strong enough demand for its return.

Honestly I am seriously optimistic by the replies I have seen in this thread, and guess that even though its an ATV site there are plenty of members here who do read between the lines and can see what is happening, and since all I was really wanting to accomplish was to see the response from people in different areas of the country, and bring these really serious issues to the attention of those who may not have normally known about them or just bought into the typical story on TV Etc. Plus I dont think its proper how the media and the govt try to influence the younger people of this country, and figure if even one young rider learned from all the posts and opinions here it would be worth all the time.