I am posting to ask help from my fellow riders. (I will break down the proposals for both the adult ATVs and the youth ATVs in the following posts, so give me a minute to get them posted)

The CPSC (Consumer Product Safety Commission) has their proposed ruling completed and is now up for final public comment until October 24, 2006. They are proposing rules that will cover single-rider ATVs, tandem ATVs (intended for two people) and ATVs intended for children under 16 years of age. On October 14, 2005, the Commission published an ANPR that began this proceeding. That is when they requested comments from the public. So, here we are today, picking apart their proposed rulings. Here is the report in a pdf format: CPSC Proposal

If anyone remembers, I brought this topic up in December 2005. Here was my original discussion asking for comments before this ruling was to take place. Here's the link Click Here!


I know most of the following adult proposed standards will probably not concern many of you, it's the standards they want to set for the youth ATVs that I'm concerned with. I know they mean well, but for those that ride sand like we do, I feel it's a huge step backwards. Please take the time and give me back your opinions. I hope that maybe you could spend a little more time and write to the CPSC to comment on their rulings.

(For any of you that are not familar with the CPSC, their website is Here!

Or, their Overview taken from their website:


Here's where to respond to:

[Federal Register: August 10, 2006 (Volume 71, Number 154)]
[Proposed Rules]
From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]
[DOCID:fr10au06-14]
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Part II
Consumer Product Safety Commission
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
16 CFR Parts 1307, 1410, 1500 and 1515

Standards for All Terrain Vehicles and Ban of Three-Wheeled All Terrain Vehicles; Proposed Rule
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY COMMISSION

16 CFR Parts 1307, 1410, 1500 and 1515

Standards for All Terrain Vehicles and Ban of Three-Wheeled All Terrain Vehicles; Notice of Proposed Rulemaking

AGENCY: Consumer Product Safety Commission.

ACTION: Notice of proposed rulemaking.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
SUMMARY: To address the unreasonable risks of injury and death associated with all terrain vehicles (``ATVs'), the Commission is proposing rules for adult and youth ATVs. The proposed rules include requirements concerning the mechanical operation of ATVs, requirements for providing safety information about operating ATVs (such as through labeling and training), and requirements for certification, testing and recordkeeping. The proposed standards would apply to adult single-rider and tandem ATVs and to youth ATVs. The Commission is also proposing a rule to ban three-wheeled ATVs. The proposed rules are issued under the authority of both the Consumer Product Safety Act (``CPSA') and the Federal Hazardous Substances Act (``FHSA').

DATES: Written comments in response to this document must be received by the Commission no later than October 24, 2006. Comments on elements of the proposed rule that, if issued in final form would constitute collection of information requirements under the Paperwork Reduction Act, may be filed with the Office of Management and Budget (``OMB') and with the Commission. Comments will be received by OMB until October 10, 2006.

ADDRESSES: Comments should be filed by email to cpsc-os@cpsc.gov. Comments also may be filed by telefacsimile to (301) 504-0127 or they may be mailed or delivered, preferably in five copies, to the Office of the Secretary, U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, 4330 East West Highway, Bethesda, Maryland 20814-4408; telephone (301) 504-7923.

Comments should be captioned ``ATV NPR.'

Comments to OMB should be directed to the Desk Officer for the Consumer Product Safety Commission, Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, OMB, Washington, DC 20503. The Commission asks commenters to provide copies of such comments to the Commission's Office of the Secretary, with a caption or cover letter identifying the materials as copies of comments submitted to OMB on the proposed collection of information requirements for the proposed ATV standard.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Elizabeth Leland, Project Manager, ATV Safety Review, Directorate for Economic Analysis, Consumer Product Safety Commission, 4330 East West Highway, Bethesda, Maryland 20814-4408; telephone (301) 504-7706 or e-mail: eleland@cpsc.gov.

 

So far regarding Adult ATVs, they are not proposing too much change. The only thing I see that will be different on the sale of new bikes will be the following:

-<u>Operator foot environment</u> - reduce getting yourself ran over - maybe do something similar like the youth bikes? ie, running boards/foot trays/platform/etc

-<u>Lighting</u> - Mandate headlamps, tails lamps and stop lamps

-<u>Maximum speed capability & brake requirements</u> - they want manufacturers to check brake performance on loaded bikes (with rider and gear and for them to hold on an incline).

-<u>Warning Labels</u> - basically to remain the same (maybe even more)

-<u>Age requirement form</u> - they want to make sure you know that under 16yr olds should not be riding this bike, something else for you to sign

-<u>Instructional Training</u> - they want ATV manufacturers to provide the training at no cost. Basically, when you buy your new bike, they hand you a cert for a free course.

-<u>Safety Video</u> - requires the retailer to provide the video before the sales transaction is complete

-<u>Stability requirements</u> - same as the vountary standard

-<u>Tandem ATVs</u> - equipment and configuration requirements for sinle rider ATVs also apply to the tandem ATVs.

-<u>Ban of 3-Wheeled ATVs</u> - "The Consent Decrees prohibited the ATV distributors who signed the Consent Decrees from distributing or selling three-wheeled ATVs. In the LOUs, the major distributors agreed to continue to refrain from selling three-wheeled ATVs. None of them currently sell them (although three-wheeled ATVs that pre-date the Consent Decrees are still in use and could continue to be used if a ban is finally adopted). However, newer entrants to the ATV market have not made such agreements with the Commission."


So far so good?

 

Now for the youth ATVs. I know that this may not pertain to many of you but as fellow riders, please see it for what it's worth...more regulations to put in place. So does that mean in a couple more years, they come back again and say "Oh well, the rulings didn't make a difference on numbers so now we're going to just ban children under the age of 16 from riding ATVs." History proves that when the government can't protect us from ourselves, they take it away.

<u>They (the CPSC) are proposing 3 categories for youth ATVs.</u>

-Junior ATV - at least 6yrs old
-Pre-teen ATV - at least 9yrs old
-Teen ATV - at least 12yrs old

<u>Lighting</u> - mandatory to have at least one stop lamp and to prohibit any headlamp or forward-facing day-time running lights.

<u>Maximum speed capability</u> - proprosed rule establishes maximum speeds for the 3 categories above. In addition, they would require a speed limiting device on the Pre-teen and Teen ATVs which would require the simultaneous use of 2 different tools for the devices to be adjusted or removed (to discourage children from removing them without the participation of an adult).

Here's the proposed speed ranges for the proposed models:**
-Junior ATV - at least 6yrs old - 10 mph or less
-Pre-teen ATV - at least 9yrs old - 10*-15 mph
-Teen ATV - at least 12yrs old 15*-30 mph

* with speed limiter

<u>Automatic transmission</u> - proprosed rule requires that ALL youth ATVs have automatic transmissions. (they state that the ATV is already complex even without the added activity of changing gears).

<u>Information Requirements</u> - Essentially the same as current regulations with the new addition of the age acknowledgement form to be signed by purchaser.

"Among those who sent comments to the Commission were ASI Instructors; a state senator; riders; parents and relatives of riders; parents, relatives and friends of fatality and injury victims; consumers; medical professionals; consumer organizations; ATV industry associations; employees of the ATV industry; Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; and the students at a US Universary."

So you can only imagine what kind of concerns were brought up.

 

In regards to the proposed rulings for the youth ATVs...

**Here's how they determine Maximum Speed Capabilites:
Sec. 1515.5 Maximum speed capability test.

(a) Test conditions. Test conditions shall be as follows:
(1) ATV test weight shall be the unloaded ATV weight plus the vehicle load capacity (including test operator and instrumentation), with any added weight secured to the seat or cargo area(s) if so equipped.
(2) Tires shall be inflated to the pressures recommended by the ATV manufacturer for the vehicle's test weight.
(3) The test surface shall be clean, dry, smooth and level concrete, or equivalent.
(b ) Test procedure. Measure the maximum speed capability of the ATV using a radar gun or equivalent method. The test operator shall accelerate the ATV until maximum speed is reached, and shall maintain maximum speed for at least 30.5 m (100 ft). Speed measurement shall be made when the ATV has reached a stabilized maximum speed. A maximum speed test shall consist of a minimum of two measurement test runs conducted over the same track, one each in opposite directions. If more than two measurement runs are made there shall be an equal number of runs in each direction. The maximum speed capability of the ATV shall be the arithmetic average of the measurements made. A reasonable number of preliminary runs may be made prior to conducting a recorded test.


Call me silly but aren't ATVs "designed" for loose dirt? How can they test them on concrete??? Anyone knows that the looser the surface, the less those bikes will move.

And the prohibiting of forward facing headlamps? I can see why they think they're a bad idea but only positive things come out of them if used as Daytime Running Lamps. How about proposing they stop calling them headlamps and refer to them everywhere as DRLs?

I could keep going on and on but I'll spare you all for a few minutes...lol

We've got discussions going on in other forums if you are interested.


The Toys Section at rv.net

DuneSafe - Adult ATV/3wheeler Discussion

DuneSafe - Youth ATV Discussion

ASA Forums

 

The "speed restrictions for youth" aspect worries me a little. I investigated this just recently when looking for a starter quad for my son. The proposal suggests that major brand youth models would already be substantially in compliance with the speed recommendations.

Really? I'd like to know which youth quad has a true speed-based governor system. All of the quads I looked at, from all of the major manufacturers, use some combination of 1) engine intake restriction, 2) engine exhaust restriction, and 3) throttle restriction. The important thing to note here is that none - repeat NONE - of these have anything to do with speed at all. They relate solely to power output from the engine, either by limiting the volume that can be aspirated in/out (1,2) or by limiting the amount of fuel permitted to enter the engine (3).

So while it is possible to dial down the throttle on a youth quad to limit its "straight and level" speed to (example) 10 MPH, that same amount of power coming out of the engine may not be capable of pulling the quad + rider up some incline on the trail. The unit may stall out. This will tempt parents to open up the restrictors so that Junior doesn't get stuck on the hill to the annoyance of Junior, his parents, and everyone else. But a simple "engine limiter" doesn't know to generate more power based on one set of conditions and less based on another - so the very risk they're trying to avoid is actually heightened.

The proper solution is a true speed-based governor. A Hall-effect sensor or similar device on a front wheel that places no restrictions on engine power output until the maximum speed is reached. Unable to find a quad so equipped from the factory, I've actually toyed with building one myself. But as an Engineer, I can tell you that a true speed-based governor system costs more than two funny-shaped washers on the engine and a set screw on the throttle. First off you need an electrical power system, which not all youth quads have. Then you need some (relatively simple) circuitry, the sensor itself, and (most expensive) some kind of electromechanical actuator between the thumb control, the governor system, and the actual throttle. Going fully EFI makes this sort of thing easy but I doubt too many people want the cost of a full EFI system on a youth quad.

Then there's the liability aspect. There's not much that can go wrong with funny-shaped washers and set screws. There's PLENTY that can go wrong with electronics (anyone here run Windows? [grin]), and that's even before you ask them to operate in the environment frequented by our machines. Now, take that somewhat unreliable system and insert it between the thumb control and the engine's actual throttle, so that the electronics can override the operator. Find me the ATV manufacturer who wants to buy off on that liability for people's children. Yeah, right. The soon-to-be-history engine size limitations suddenly make a lot of sense from a business perspective.

I don't have a good answer here. I'm just trying to illustrate some of the challenges that I perceive in this situation, from a technical/business/legal perspective. The ideal answer is a bulletproof (read: automotive ABS level reliability) speed-based governor system, but I would estimate that one which works with a traditional carbed engine would cost the manufacturer $20-50 to add to the machine. The rule of thumb is that a dollar of extra manufacturing cost adds four dollars to the retail price, so that would mean a $80-200 bump in the selling price of youth quads. And that's not counting the per-unit overhead for the additional liability insurance referenced earlier.

Tough situation.

 

That is why I'm asking for input and asking fellow riders to take a few minutes, read either my highlights or the actual report (link is in the first thread) to comment, have some sort of discussion to respond to the CPSC with their proposed rules and/or all the above.


I too am wondering how they exactly plan to limit the speed. They are moving in the right direction about doing something with the current standards for size/cc/etc for youths but limiting speed? I was floored when I read how they plan to calculate the top speed! Did you see that? Concrete?

You are correct, current standards are based of age for specific sized motors. I think the 50 are not supposed to exceed 15mph? I'm not 100% sure of that. And if that number is correct, I'm sure they of course, tested it on concrete? Makes sense why it won't even move in really soft sand without a little push.

Both of my boys started on that bike you have for your son. We removed all the restrictors as the boys progressed with their riding skills, but still could barely get that bike to climb any type of incline in sand. Needless to say, they out grew it very fast and went to 90s.

I'm tired of my parental rights being threatened. What next? They ban all ATVs for children under 16?

 

yeah, in Oklahoma last session they tried to ban all kids under 12. Thank goodness it did not pass. If you go to Waynoka.com, which is the Little Sahara of OK forum, you could post your info their also.

DRL's do make the atv more visible just like on vehicles.

You are right, how do they expect a bike going 10-15mph on CONCRETE, to make it up a LITTLE SANDHILL????? Yeah right

 

Thanks ATVMom! I'm make my way there and get this info posted!

 

**Latest Update** Some BIG GUNS jumping in!


Yesterday, the CPSC added the the following to their calander:

Wednesday, September 27

*Acting Chairman Nancy Nord; Quin Dodd, Chief of Staff; David DiMatteo,
Legal Counsel (Office of Acting Chairman Nancy Nord); Pamela Weller and
Michael Gougisha, Legal Counsel (Office of Commissioner Thomas H.
Moore); Patsy Semple, Executive Director; Lowell Martin, Deputy
Executive Director; Gib Mullan, Office of Compliance; Jacquie Elder,
Office of Hazard Identification and Reduction; Elizabeth Leland,
Economic Analysis, meeting with Michael Wiegard, outside counsel for
Kawasaki Motors Corporation, and David Murray, outside counsel for
Yamaha Motor Corporation, to discuss revision of the ANSI/SVIA-1-2001
voluntary standard for ATVs and the pending CPSC notice of proposed
rulemaking regarding ATVs; 10:00 a.m., Willkie Farr & Gallagher, LLP,
1875 K Street, N.W., Washington, DC. The meeting was requested by
Michael Wiegard and David Murray. For additional information contact Kia
Kopsidas, (301) 504-7782. Posted on Master Calendar 9/20/06. (S)



Then this morning on Good Morning America, they did a segment on ATVs. Here's the video: http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2472564

And the link to the written report: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2472172&page=1



And then the CPSC released the following today:

NEWS from CPSC
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission
Office of Information and Public Affairs
Washington, DC 20207

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
September 21, 2006
Release #06-265 CPSC Consumer Hotline: (800) 638-2772
CPSC Media Contacts: Julie Vallese and Scott Wolfson, (301) 504-7800 and
(301) 504-7051

CPSC Launches Major Campaign To Drive Down Deaths and Serious Injuries
Associated With All-Terrain Vehicles
CPSC, 4-H Council, NASCAR Legend and ATV Racing Champion Join Forces To
Encourage Riders To "Take Knowledge to the Extreme"

WASHINGTON, D.C. - From the rugged trails of West Virginia to the sand
dunes in southern California, the sound of all-terrain vehicles in
action can be heard across the country. However, in many communities, it
is news accounts of tragic incidents being heard. To reduce the number
of deaths and injuries, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission is
leading a major campaign to educate riders young and old on the safe use
of ATVs.

At a news conference today, CPSC Acting Chairman Nancy Nord stated,
"ATVs are not toys, especially adult ATVs, which can travel at 60 miles
per hour and weigh up to 800 pounds. Children should only ride youth
model ATVs - there have been too many children killed while driving or
riding as a passenger on adult ATVs."

Joining Acting Chairman Nord were National 4-H Council CEO and President
Donald Floyd, NASCAR Racing Legend Richard Petty, and ATV Racing
Champion John Natalie.

The number of four-wheel ATVs in use in the United States has increased
from just over 2 million to more than 6.9 million over the past decade.
From 1982 through 2004, there were nearly 6,500 deaths involving ATVs.
In 2004 alone, an estimated 136,000 people were treated in hospital
emergency rooms for ATV related injuries - many life-altering. In 2003,
an estimated 740 people died nationwide in ATV incidents. About 30
percent of all deaths and injuries involve children younger than 16.

CPSC's campaign includes: new television and radio public service
announcements; the creation of www.ATVSafety.gov, a new Web site for
riders, parents, trainers, local and state officials, and the media; use
of CPSC's Neighborhood Safety Network; and partnering with organizations
and officials dedicated to promoting ATV safety.

CPSC is encouraging all riders to "take knowledge to the extreme" by
participating in a training course and following our core rules for safe
riding: 1) never allow a child to operate or ride on an adult size ATV,
2) always wear a helmet and protective gear, 3) never ride tandem on a
one-person ATV, 4) never ride on paved roads, and 5) never ride under
the influence of drugs or alcohol.

While CPSC believes that there would be a decline in deaths and injuries
if riders followed these safe riding practices, the agency has also
proposed new rules to make riding safer. These include:

Banning 3-wheeled ATVs, which present three times the risk of injury
compared to 4-wheel ATVs and have re-emerged through the import market,
Internet and secondhand dealers;
- Making the current voluntary standard mandatory, which would require
all ATVs to meet U.S. safety standards;
- Calling for three models of youth ATVs instead of two and setting
speed limitations for each youth model;
- Requiring retailers to offer free training to all ATV purchasers and
members of their immediate family;
- Requiring retailers to provide a written form to purchasers warning
against the use of adult ATVs by children and giving death and injury
statistics related to children riding adult ATVs.

The public has until October 24, 2006 to provide comments to the CPSC
concerning our proposed rules. Comments can be e-mailed to:
tstevenson@cpsc.gov

ATV's are growing in popularity and the knowledge on their safe use must
grow as well. The CPSC is committed to doing its part - consumers,
parents, manufacturers and retailers must do theirs as well. By taking
knowledge to the extreme, all ATV riders can go down a fun, yet safer
path.

To view this press release online, please go to our web site at:
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml06/06265.html