<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>That is to look at how many incidents involve underage youth and start finding ways to make those who have legal responsibility for them while involved around ATVs be held accountable directly for all injury and damage resulting from their negligence, and no, stupidity or ignorance on their part, is not a satisfactory excuse.

WT</end quote></div>

About 30 years ago, while home on leave from MCB Twentynine Palms, CA, I found myself in front of another early 20's angry young man who was waving a knife and threatening to carve me a new a-hole. Unarmed, except for 4-1/2 years training and recent overseas experience, I grabbed the nearest thing that would serve as a weapon, a 3-Ft. length of 2X4. Now, I knew my aggressor, and I knew that he "just wasn't right in the head" as they like to say in these parts. Also, I knew he had already served time for attempting to carryout this act on a bartender who made him mad a couple years back. A cousin by acquaintance, and want-a-be race car driver, while I certainly didn't need or desire the surgical procedure he was offering to perform, I really didn't want to inflict any permanent damage either. So, I firmly explained that with the reach this board gave me, I was going to break his gear shifting arm in two or three places before he ever got close enough to even scratch me with a knife. As I assumed an exaggerated hitter's stance, Bubba (yes, his real name) took a step back as he struggled to assess his situation. After about a 60 second stand off, he made this very profound statement: "I might be crazy, but I ain't dumb!" as he closed his frog sticker and departed the area.

The moral of this story and how it applies to permitting unsafe ATV operation by underage riders is this:

If the responsible ATV community, the ATV manufacturers and dealers, the insurance carries, the health care community and law enforcement can get behind a program that spells out the consequences of when an adult permits unsafe operation of an ATV by any underage rider, then maybe we can begin to reach out to these irresponsible adults, just as I was ready to "Reach out to Bubba," giving them something to consider. I've said it before, "Even a knucklehead understands 1 to 5 years." That's the penalty for "Wanton Endangerment 1st Degree" -- Kentucky's equivalent to 'Felony Child Endangerment'. Quite possibly, over time we could begin to see a reduction in the numbers based on the fear of what would be highly publicized consequences of their irresponsible decisions. Now, how do we get there from here?

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I've said it before, "Even a knucklehead understands 1 to 5 years." That's the penalty for "Wanton Endangerment 1st Degree" -- Kentucky's equivalent to 'Felony Child Endangerment'. Quite possibly, over time we could begin to see a reduction in the numbers based on the fear of what would be highly publicized consequences of their irresponsible decisions. Now, how do we get there from here? </end quote></div>
It needs to be on the same highway that authorities use to pursue all other child endangerment actions. If negligent/absent supervision associated with minor ATV riding was clearly added into the criminal code then that would at least pave the path for prosecution.

I guess the existing safety education literature could also be modified to include warnings that failure of adult supervision of minor ATV operators could be prosecuted as a criminal offense with xx years of prison. That might help the "crazy but not stupids" of the ATV world to be more vigilant.

Again, this would help the most in regulated parks and little for the crazy who ride on private land or far from patrolling staff. Given the amount of active enforcement in California I'm not sure it would show significant reduction in underage injuries.

But maybe the following snippets detail a situation where the penalties are little more than a slap on the wrist. I read the section carefully to understand the consequence of not having safety certs for underage/supervising adult. Practically speaking, maybe this as far as it can fine someone for just not having the certs. We are focused on situations where injuries occur. I guess it wouldn't matter much in the big scheme of things if a serious accident happened and the supervising adult had a safety cert or not. One could make the case not having the proper certs was negligent but would pale against the significant negligence directly involved with the injury/death.

I learned about the Off-Highway Vehicle Safety Education Committee which i am going to follow up on to see how active this is today or just something being done by a paper pusher to meet the statue.

Here are a few snippets of the Cal Veh Code as it relates to ATVs.

Reckless Driving Causing Bodily Injury
38317. Whenever reckless driving of an off-highway
motor vehicle proximately causes bodily injury to any person,
the person driving the vehicle shall, upon conviction thereof,
be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for not less
than 30 days nor more than six months or by fine of not less
than one hundred dollars ($100) nor more than one thousand
dollars ($1,000) or by both such fine and imprisonment.
Amended Ch. 1092, Stats. 1983. Effective September 26, 1983. Operative
January 1, 1984

Reckless Driving
38316. (a) It is unlawful for any person to drive any offhighway
motor vehicle with a willful and wanton disregard
for the safety of other persons or property.
(b) Any person who violates this section shall, upon
conviction thereof, be punished by imprisonment in the
county jail for not less than five days nor more than 90 days
or by fine of not less than fifty dollars ($50) nor more than five
hundred dollars ($500) or by both such fine and
imprisonment, except as provided in Section 38317.
Amended Ch. 1092, Stats. 1983. Effective September 26, 1983. Operative
January 1, 1984


Off-Highway Vehicle Safety Education Committee
38500. The Off-Highway Vehicle Safety Education
Committee is hereby established. The committee consists of
the Commissioner of the California Highway Patrol, the Deputy Director of Parks and Recreation for Off-Highway
Vehicles, the Director of Motor Vehicles, or their designees,
and a member of the Off-Highway Motor Vehicle Recreation
Commission appointed by the members of the commission.
The committee shall receive staff assistance in its operations
from the Off-Highway Motor Vehicle Recreation Division in
the Department of Parks and Recreation.
Added Ch. 881, Stats. 1987. Effective January 1, 1988.



Duties of Committee
38500.1. The Off-Highway Vehicle Safety Education
Committee shall meet periodically to perform all of the
following:
(a) Develop minimum criteria for certification as an
approved all-terrain vehicle safety training organization. The
criteria shall include, but not be limited to, the following:
(1) Curriculum and materials for training instructors to
teach all-terrain vehicle operation and safety.
(2) Curriculum and materials for training all-terrain
vehicle safety.
(3) Curriculum for teaching responsible use of offhighway
vehicles with respect to environmental
considerations, private property restrictions, off-highway
vehicle operating laws, including noise and spark arrestor
laws, and prohibitions against operating off-highway vehicles
under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
(4) Record keeping and insurance requirements to satisfy
the requirements of Sections 11103.1 and 11108.
(b) Upon presentation to the committee of a proposed
program by an applicant to become an approved all-terrain
vehicle safety training organization, the committee shall
determine whether the applicant's program meets the
minimum criteria and, if approved, shall recommend the
organization for licensing pursuant to Section 11105.6.
Added Ch. 881, Stats. 1987. Effective January 1, 1988.
Safety Certificates
38501. (a) An all-terrain vehicle safety training
organization, commencing on January 1, 1989, shall issue an
all-terrain vehicle safety certificate furnished by the
department to any individual who successfully completes a
course of instruction in all-terrain vehicle operation and
safety as approved and certified by the Off-highway Vehicle
Safety Education Committee.
(b) The department shall charge a fee not to exceed three
dollars ($3) for each all-terrain vehicle safety certificate
issued by an all-terrain vehicle safety training organization
to each person completing a course of instruction from an allterrain
vehicle safety instructor using the approved course of
instruction of the all-terrain vehicle safety training
organization. The amount of the fee shall be determined by
the department and shall be sufficient to defray the actual
costs incurred by the department for administering and
monitoring this program.
(c) An all-terrain vehicle safety training organization
shall not charge a fee in excess of the fee charged by the
department pursuant to subdivision (b) for furnishing an allterrain
vehicle safety certificate. An organization may charge
a fee

Conditions for Operating: Minors
38503. No person under the age of 18 years, on and after
January 1, 1990, shall operate an all-terrain vehicle on public
lands of this state unless the person satisfies one of the
following conditions:
(a) The person is taking a prescribed safety training
course under the direct supervision of a certified all-terrain
vehicle safety instructor.
(b) The person is under the direct supervision of an adult
who has in their possession an appropriate safety certificate
issued by this state, or issued under the authority of another
state.
(c) The person has in possession an appropriate safety
certificate issued by this state or issued under the authority
of another state.
Added Ch. 881, Stats. 1987. Effective January 1, 1988.

Conditions for Operating: Additional Requirements

38504. No person under 14 years of age, on and after
January 1, 1990, shall operate an all-terrain vehicle on public
lands of this state unless the person satisfies one of the
conditions set forth in Section 38503 and, in addition, is
accompanied by and under the direct supervision of a parent
or guardian or is accompanied by and under the direct
supervision of an adult who is authorized by the parent or
guardian.
Added Ch. 881, Stats. 1987. Effective January 1, 1988.

Violation of Operating Conditions: Fines

38504.1. (a) Neither a parent or guardian of a child
who is under 14 years of age, nor an adult who is
authorized by the parent or guardian to supervise that
child shall grant permission to, or knowingly allow,
that child to operate an all-terrain vehicle in a manner
that violates Section 38504.
(b) A person convicted of a violation of subdivision
(a) is punishable as follows:
(1) For a first conviction, the court shall either
impose a fine of one hundred twenty-five dollars ($125)
or order the person to take or retake and complete an
all-terrain vehicle safety training course pursuant to
Section 38501. If ordered to take or retake and complete
the safety training course, the person shall provide the
court a copy of the all-terrain vehicles safety certificate
issued as a result of that completion.
(2) For a second conviction, a fine of not less than
one hundred twenty-five dollars ($125) nor more than
two hundred fifty dollars ($250).
(3) For a third or any subsequent conviction, a fine
of not less than two hundred fifty dollars ($250) nor more than five hundred dollars ($500).
Added Sec. 1, Ch. 195, Stats. 2006. Effective January 1, 2007.

Court Ordered Safety Training Course
38504.2. If a person under 14 years of age was not
properly supervised or accompanied in accordance
with Section 38504, and the parent or guardian of that
child or the adult who was authorized by the parent or
guardian to supervise or accompany that child is in
violation of Section 38504.1, upon a conviction
pursuant to Section 38504, the court may order that
child to attend and complete the all-terrain vehicle
safety training course accompanied by the person who
violated Section 38504.1. If so ordered, the child under
14 years of age shall provide the court a copy of the all terrain
vehicles safety certificate issued as a result of
that completion.
Added Sec. 2, Ch. 195, Stats. 2006. Effective January 1, 2007

FYI
link to Cal code on ATV

 

Here's a link to an October 27, 2007 newspaper article from West Virginia (WV is presently #2, but may take over the #1 position from KY in 2007).

Laws, other factors contribute to high WV ATV death rate.

The most interesting WV numbers were these:

43 ATV related deaths in WV this year to date.

80% of ATV rider deaths in WV (34) occured on paved roads.

19% of ATV rider deaths in WV (8) occured while riding double.

9.3% of ATV rider deaths in WV (4) involved children.

While responsibilty for one's own actions is strongly supported in WV, unfortunately, most of the persons interviewed for the article are calling for "more laws" -- not better enforcement of existing laws.

 

Interesting article. Poor guy talks like it is a lost cause. conceding that even with stricter laws on the books, compliance will remain low. Like you say, slap them hard with the fines and make sure word gets around that serious enforcement is happening; the crazy, not idiots will get the message.

I just got back from a day at Hollister Hills State SRVA park.

EVERYONE wears a helmet, most wear full protective gear.

NO ONE rides double.

NO ONE rides on public roads. (there is limited paved access to the store and campgrounds within the park, in park traffic only).

LOTS of rangers patrolling.

Actually, I did not even see any real crazies, although there were some huge jumps and riding going on the actual closed tracks, as it should be confined there.

Alcohol - Did not see any obvious tailgate hootin and hollerin.

About laws on the books vs enforcement. Cal has a safety cert requirement for those under 16 and supervising adults. The rangers always make a physical inspection for current registration (red, green sticker) but never ask about safety certificates. Kind of interesting there is so much compliance in general, yet they don't check for certs.

Another thing: The park where we rode today is mostly one way trails, with clearly marked signage. The signs are the same as you find on the street: "Do not enter" with red circle and slash. Up/down arrow for two way traffic, big One Way arrows and a few sharp turn signs as well. I'm sure the purists will howl about the signs but it sure does give one a lot more comfort about getting a safe ride in. Of course you always need to watch for the wrong wayers; we say one today who was coming the wrong direction but was going very slowly and hugging the shoulder.

So why does WV has quite a low rate of underage fatalities as compared to the national figures? Disproportionate about of drunks and demolition derby with street cars?

 

The real problem with today's WV ATV accident numbers is the current method of uniform reporting; "thar ain't none."

After the latest (2006) ATV Safety Bill failed to pass the WV State Legislature, due to what has been reported to be "inadequate documentation of ATV accident report figures," the Govenor issued an executive order for the WV State Police to establish an "ATV Accident Reporting Procedure" which would provide the figures necessary to support stricter statues, and enforcement of existing laws, as they already apply to off-road vehicle operation. Thar workin' on it.

Hey WT,
I just clicked the FINALIZE button on business trip reservations to the Land of Fruits & Nuts for the first week of January 2008.

LEX to LAX, then pick up a rent-a wreck to PSP, and on to OAK, then back to LAX, before returning to LEX (on wings) in 8 short days of fun in the California sun!

Where are you along this route?

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>and enforcement of existing laws, as they already apply to off-road vehicle operation.</end quote></div>Sorta sad, heh? It all just implies the majority of constituents want the law to buzz off.

Kind of follows the "stay out of my business" mentality, so if I load up all the kids on the ATV and they flip off and end up as quadriplegics then that is my right.

Hey, I found one other interesting CVC statue that applies to ATV. All drinking and driving violations apply to off road operations. And here in California you do NOT want any kind of DUI infraction. Even the first one is very painful: requires expensive lawyer fees, huge increase in insurance or cancellations, re-education classes, restricted driving. At least no jail time but they are very serious about this so anyone with half a brain will not be drinking and driving in any of the controlled riding venues. I'm sure if you are out in the boonies, miles from anyone else, who's going to know or care.

Take a look at the dates of some of the CA off road regulations, some dating to the 70's; that's nearly three decades the process has been going on here so it should not be a surprise that most of the basics are pretty well drilled in. As an aside, the area they are working on more recently is more strict and diligent enforcement of recreational boating. There aren't nearly as many boats as ATVs/motorcycles but during the summer, the press has a field day when folks get drunk and crash into each other on the Delta.

 

CA has had a head start in ATV legislation for a good reason; the very first ATC-90's landed there in 1969. By '73, when I first arrived in CA, Trail / Dirt Bikes and ATC's were already laying tracks all over the deserts. By '77, when I got back from WESTPAC, every small town had at least one bike / atc shop. So, when they started keeping a headcount of ATV accidents in 1982, it was no surprise CA was #1 in ATV deaths.


Deaths Associated With ATVs By State - Jan. 1, 1982 through Dec. 31, 2005
(Amended: March 8, 2007)

Go to Table 2 on page 7. Be sure to read the footnotes as they provide some insight into the rise and fall of the reported numbers year over year.


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>"Hey, I found one other interesting CVC statue that applies to ATV. All drinking and driving violations apply to off road operations."
WT</end quote></div>

Not to astonishing, the KY Revised Statutes (KRS) read (1) "No person under the influence of intoxicating berverages or any drug which may impair one's driving ability shall operate a vehicle, that is not a motor vehicle, anywhere in this state."

As such, if you're operating any vehicle on, or off, highways, you'd better be doing it sober. MV or ATV or a riding lawn mower, if your caught drunk driving it's going to cost you; even on private property.

BTW, KY's first law pertaining to "Off-Road Vehicles" was enacted in June 1974. It dealt exclusively with operation on private or public property without the property owner's or government agency's consent.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>BTW, KY's first law pertaining to "Off-Road Vehicles" was enacted in June 1974. It dealt exclusively with operation on private or public property without the property owner's or government agency's consent.</end quote></div>Well then, I guess KY does not get much of break for lack of progress in ATV safety and education programs, and enforcement of related statutes.

fyi - i sent you a PM

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>"Well then, I guess KY does not get much of break for lack of progress in ATV safety and education programs, and enforcement of related statutes."
WT</end quote></div>

And, they don't deserve a break!

What Kentucky, and 49 other states need to do is "Enforce the laws already on the books."

A perfect example is: KRS 189.224 "Permitting unlawful operation of a motor vehicle prohibited."

Specifically, this statue reads: "It is unlawful for the owner, or any other person, employing or otherwise directing, the operator of any vehicle, to require, or knowingly permit, the operation of such vehicle upon a highway in any manor contrary to law."

(Gee, we like one line laws here in Kentucky!)


So, when Grand Daddy Bubba lets 13-year-old Bubba, Jr., drive the Kawa 650 'Brute Force' down to the local C-Store for a Mountain Dew, he's already broken the law. Enforce this law, and it may save a Sheriff's Deputy the time involved in directing traffic around the accident scene while I scoop up Bubba, Jr.'s remains and pour them into a body bag for a trip to the morgue.

You see, the laws are already in place. Now, we've got to find a way to proactively enforce them.

------------------------------------------------------
So, SSE of OAK ... Castro Valley, or the Hayward area?
(When I tried to reply it said WT is not accepting PM's)

 

Law as it is practiced in the US is a funny animal. How do you propose we get 50 states to agree on anything? Each is different. We can't get them to agree on a common set of standards, how do you think this will pan out?
I don't think punishment is the answer. I did at one time, but that wsa driven by wanting to hold someone accountable. But what do you do in the case where the child is gven strict instructions, and disobeys them and gets killed? The parent goes to jail because he bought a full size machine for himself and left teh keys somewhere the kid could get them... I don't think so.. You have trigger locks on guns and kids find a way to get killed with a locked gun... It happens.

No matter what you legislate, you ar enot going to cover all the bases, and you end up hurting the legit parent that is a victim of his child having an accident. You can't have it both ways, and the LAW cannot be subjective... This isn't a black and white subject. You cannot always find a right or wrong answer.