To address the RARE issue: RARE I & II (Road Area Review and Evaluation) had nothing to do with ATVs or Trucks! It simply stated you could not create NEW roads in designated Roadless Areas. You could do as you wish with existing roads and ride where you wish, so I don't know what you're talking about on the RARE front. Maybe there's some confusion on the matter out west....Not sure. It wasn't until Bush put his official "Travel Managment" program into place that they started closing down EXISTING roads. This is the problem for current use.

And by the way, the Forest Service is bending over backwards trying to create official trails from ATV trails that are made *****-nilly in large parts of [some] forests. It's a big system....and it's hard to lump problems all together.

 

Seems like a Land, Trail and Environmental Issues topic to me. These issues have political roots though. Hard to avoid in a lot of cases. Maybe it should be moved...not sure.

Not true IMO. Helicoptors make that a non-issue. These bums go where the living is easy. They use existing routes. Drugs was just an example of why they're closing unauthorized routes. Big fire is a major issue for the USFS, especailly those caused by drug thugs from Mexico. Something like 45% of the USFS budget goes to fire. Fire budgets only increase each year.

Ranch....Not to sound condescending, but these are Federal lands. We're talking about National Forest here, controlled by the Dept. of Agriculture. Your state has nothing to do with them, yet has been given quite a bit of input. It could be worse, believe it or not.

I used to hunt grouse, shoot thousands of rounds of clay, party, and ride my KTM420 in Tahoe National Forest (CA) in my 20s. Not sure how that would go over these days. I have a sneaking suspicion that there's a gate in front of our old trail over to Lake Tahoe. -Used to take the trails from Tahoe City back to Truckee after a night at the bars.... Don't tell my kids.

 

Again, I understand the frustration. However, untold time and effort is spent on public meetings, public comments periods, the appeals process, the hiring of local people to USFS postions....it goes on and on. The USFS is not out to get you. I live with a person who's entire job is recreation on the lands, from Oregon to Maine. I assure you there is no conspiracy. These are just regular people from all social and political backgrounds doing their job.

For the record. ATVs are considered a minority with users of USFS lands. They try to keep them open, but when 90% of the input is ATV negative, it's hard to give it all that the ATV users want. How can the managers listen to 8% of the comments when 92% want the illegal trails closed down (drugs / fires). Try to keep this in mind and think of the big picture. The USFS wants people to use the land, it's a matter of the sqeaky wheel.....and the anti-ATV folks outnumber the ATV folks by 10 to 1. It's going to be a tough go for us when the pressure is so anti motorized vehicle in our Forests.

We will never lose all our trails and riding opportunities in national forests, but over time (regardless of the administration) there will be less and less places to ride where and when you want. Thankfully, I can ride outside my back door on non-US government lands, so it's easier for me to talk about the problem many face in the years ahead.

 

Republican Richard Nixon named the first U.S. government czar in 1973: energy czar William Simon, who officially headed the Federal Energy Office, which later became the Energy Department. Regan later appointed Bill Bennett as the drug czar. Lots of czars to go around for both parties since Nixon.

 

There is a large difference between a handful of "czars" and the 40 some-odd and counting that are in the present administration. It's getting out of hand. And, some of the writings and speeches given by them are pointing towards clearly socialist leanings.

 

Funride........Rare I and Rare II were started by the Kennedy administration at the request of environmental groups to stop logging. The discussion was mostly to prevent roads in "unroaded" areas. The express purpose was to create defacto wilderness in areas determined by congress to not meet the values for Wilderness or Roadless. It worked. In USFS Region 1 and 6 the express intent was to remove the public from use of public lands whether for vocation or recreation.....As far as your comment on USFS bending over backwards to create trails???? The Forest Supervisors of the Wallowa Whitman the Umatilla and the Mt. Hood National Forests have expressly forbid cross country travel or the use of user created trails and that is just the first part of their eviction of public users from public lands. There is no conspiracy but there is a vendetta. Close the roads, close the trails, eliminate the public. Not just ATV's but any motorized vehicles.........take a look at the alternatives for the Wallowa Whitman and then post a comment on this forum. You seem to think folks are anti ATV? The big push is from total non use advocates using the government as a tool.......The signing of the Omnibus Wilderness Bill by Obama shows how things are going to be.
You stated your wife was involved in all phases of public recreation nationwide, Ask her to review the alternatives for the Wallowa Whitman and make a comment. Perhaps she can see something in them I do not................Tass

 

Tass, Agree on the non-use advocates comment. Not sure of the details you face on Wallowa Whitman, since all areas have their own problems and Forest Supervisors work in different ways. Forest Supervisors have huge authority. Hey, don't get me wrong here....The non-use crowd is a problem for anybody who wants to ride/drive in our National Forests. They are very well organized and outnumber the ATV/snowmobile crowd 10 to 1. My wife works in all aspects, especially ATV and snowmobile issues from coast to coast, but is assigned various issues depending on the needs. Can easily research the situation, however.

BTW: She works for a group within the USNF that Al Gore developed. It's called "Teams" and they work as a team for various National Forests, so the individual Forests don't have to pay or staff specialists. The Forest hires them out for various issues, then they move on to the next problem. This "Teams" approach has reduced the size and waste within the USFS.

 

Interesting observation Moose, however y'all need to find something else to complain about. Again, look in the mirror. Each administration adds more. It's simply a word to describe a position.

Fox News is now on the anti-Czar bandwagon too, yet Bill O'Reilly called for the appointment of even more Czars, such as "immigration czar," as well as a "charity czar" and a "disaster relief victims family czar."

Below is a PARTIAL list of George Bush's Czars.

Cyber Security Czar
Regulatory Czar
AIDS Czar
Bird Flu Czar
Intelligence Czar
Health IT Czar
Katrina Czar
Manufacturing Czar
Drug Czar
Domestic Policy Czar
War Czar
Copyright Czar
Abstinence Czar
Mine Safety Czar
Latin American Czar
WTO Czar
Corruption Czar
Privacy Czar
Sudan Czar
and Health Czar

 

Rare I: 1967. 4 years after JFK was assassinated. Neither R I nor R II said you couldn't do anything on the land either. Nobody talks about R 1 anymore.

 

Okay, I knew about a handful of them. I stand corrected. And I still hold we don't need these czars. There is enough bureaucracy as it is whether a Republican administration or Democrat. But, the czars that Obama has appointed are troubling at best. Van Jones (who just quit this past weekend) was part of the whole, "Bush staged 9/11 crowd", that thinks the government imploded the building. This is just one example of many things he's said, or groups he was part of that are Marxist in their leanings. It just bears watching. Hopefully, they won't implement their beliefs on, we the people. It is always harder to reverse something done by government than it is to just leave it alone in the first place. And, I hope the trails stay open. If the states at issue are against it I hope they can keep those wanting to close these lands at bay. I just see the trend to close lands picking up speed.