While I agree with your statements regarding "law" to a point, and trust me, I value an individual's right to self-determination, but we are governed. We are also governed by the consent of the people that wish to be a part of this nation. That's the fact. Now neither you or I are experts on the Constitution, but it is the only "right" you have; to be governed by it. Your interpretation of it is fine, but when it comes down to the brass tacks, the Supreme Court has the final adjudication, not you or me. We don't have to like their decisions, we may disagree with them, but they have the final say.

The same goes for each state.

Now, you may try to withdraw from the government, but in reality, look what happened to the people in Montana, Idaho, etc. The government over-rode them. Right or wrong, that's the facts. You can argue philosophy until you turn blue, it won't change facts.

The points I'm argueing here are: 1. they rode on "closed" land, that's illegal (you don't have to like the law) 2. he rode unregistered vehicles on it (against the law again).

If he keeps doing this, more harm than good will be done for the cause of off-roaders in general.

As angry as I am over the land closures out here (I truly understand the anger felt by him) I won't dare go into the closed areas. Why? It's simple; violate the law, lose the land. This is a "no-brainer." I'm really, truly angry; I've been going to Glamis since the late 60's, that's probably longer than most people here have even been alive.

I just happen to be mature enough to know that I am responsible for my actions, and if I choose to break a law, like it or not, I can be held responsible for the consequences.

Now, if you want to try to withdraw and be a "nation" of your own, by all means, go ahead and try.

I don't see Bill Malloy trying to do it, though, do you?

 

Ok, let me try to put a few things in perspective...I didnt ride the closed trail to break the law or to be a rebel. I was there fishing (which I might add cost me almost $24 to do, but that is a entirely different story) and we wanted to ride....when we got to the trail head and found it closed. I asked "well what the he// are we paying registration for if I cant ride on it". Maybe I did ride the trail out of anger, but my initial intention was not to break the law. The other 20 or so people riding the trail were not with us, let alone even know us. I wasnt riding my quad, the unregistered quad was my brothers, it was his choice not to pay the registration. My quad is strictly for racing and some private property here and there, and I swear on my dear mothers grave I will never pay to ride THAT QUAD.

I just went to the PA DCNR web site and added up the total mileage of public state run trails, a whopping 180 miles. THE LAST TIME I CHECKED, WHICH WAS QUITE AWHILE, WE HAD NEARLY 400,000 QUADS REGISTERED IN THIS STATE!!!! That number doesnt include the number of unregistered quads. So lets see.....180 miles of state owned and operated trails and over 400,000 quads.....that math doesnt really figure to well huh?

Trapper, you should feel privelaged to have places like Glamis and Pismo to ride in the first place. Christ, I am lucky if my neighbors dont call the cops on me for riding down my dead-end street in first gear to get to the trail system. The best place that we had in this area was Hillsville, and look what happened to that. Now being from Cali you would probably laugh at HIllsville if you ever saw it, but it was the best we had. Now its gone, FOR GOOD, and we dont have the luxury of fighting for our lands they just close them. The whole purpose of the Pa registration, which took effect in 2000, was to help build and maintain NEW atv trails. How many miles of NEW atv trails do you think we have after almost 2 years........NONE!!!!

I am alot younger than you, 23, and I have a hard time dealing with this stuff. I cant just sit here and watch everything close around me. I dont really think that local clubs have enough pull or power to do much, and the majority are too worried about being politically correct to get anything done.

THE PA DCNR IS GETTING BLOODY RICH OFF OF US AND WHAT ARE WE GETTING IN RETURN....CLOSED TRAILS AND MANDATORY FEES!!!!

P.S. My final research paper for my junior english class was on this exact subject, it was 12 pages. I can go all night.

 

mx87trx,
Please accept my apology. Now that you have explained, I understand and ask that you ignore my rants against what you did.
Now then, come on out here and let's do some sand! I'll be glad to show you around!
You may never want to leave!
And what they're doing in PA is despicable.

 

I guess I understand both sides of the arguement. I have stuck my finger in the air and ridden inplaces I shouldn't out of spite too. And I have to say I felt good doing it.

While most of the time I will abide by the laws, I have to ask the poster that has been riding Glamis since the 60's: What has obeying the law gotten you? It's gotten you bent over and hosed. Over a milkweed that is shown to PROSPER WHEN IN THE PRESENCE OF ATV'S. You are going to lose Glamis in it's entirety before this is over. And the ONLY reason for it is because the greens have the influence and can get away with it. With each victory they get a little bolder and present stupider ideas that people buy into. I agree that breaking the law is not really going to accomplish anything, but I don't feel that taking it in stride and being the good citizen is getting us anywhere either. It's a no-win deal.

I do suggest that you take the above mentioned posters advice and write and bitch and moan to your elected officials while there is a republican in the White House. Because when there is another democrat (and there will be) in office, we are going to lose ground in this battle like you cannot imagine.

My .02

 

earthraper,

I don't know how familar you are with what is going on regarding Glamis, but, here's a few things;

1. I am an involved member of the ASA (American Sand Association) and this loose-knit organization (that is less than 2 years old with 20,000 members), along with the AMA and CORVA (California Off-Road Vehicle Association) filed suit against the BLM to reopen all of the recently closed areas. The case is moving forward still at this point and the greens are worried.

2. The ASA hired a biologist to count the Milkvetch in the "open" areas and counted over 70,000 plants. He says the plant is not even threatened! This biologist is the same guy that has been hired by the Sierra Club, CBD, etc. and has worked many times in the past to get plants/animals listed as endangered/threatened, etc. so he has credibility with both sides.

3. The BLM is currently holding public meetings for the DRAMP (Desert Recreation Area Management Plan) that will determine how the land is to be used for the next 10-15 years. At the Long Beach, CA, meeting alone, over 800 off-roaders appeared and public comments were taken.

4. The BLM knows at this point they can no longer "railroad" something stupid at us, even with all the pressure from the greens.

We will not lose Glamis. Period.

We are even working on public comments on the EIS (Environmental Impact Statement).

We aren't laying around bitching and not doing anything.

Pismo Beach is in great danger of losing it all. I went to Pismo the first time in '63 and the whole place was wide open. Now, it is less than 2500 acres and very restricted. The Friends of Oceano Dunes are fighting hard but have limited membership/funds/resources. The ASA is helping where it can.

Being a law-abiding citizen has kept all of Glamis from being closed. Up to and including the time of the recent closures, that was the best we could do. We weren't organized. Now we are. We're gaining ground, but each battle is hard.

What we need to do is educate people. Seriously. We need for people that don't off-road to see that we don't really harm the land. Why would we do that? That's stupid. At the next Sand Sports Super Show, I will be working on the ASA's "VIP" program; contacting state assemblymen/senators, federal congressmen, etc., mayors of cities affected by our business, and treating them to a special tour and video presentation of our side of things.

Yeah, the greens have a lot of influence. Check this; Sierra Club membership is over 600,000. Lots of money. Why, they have so much money, the President of the SC is paid close to $200,000 a year. Hmmmmmm. The ASA has 20,000 members, 99% are in California and Arizona. The Board of Directors gets paid (are you ready?) ZIP! ZILCH! NADA! NOT A DAMN CENT! Most of the time they don't even get reimbursed for expenses. They do it for the love of the land and the sport and the whole atmosphere of the community.

I'll quit. Please check out what is going on at www.glamisonline.org or www.americansandassociation.org. There's also a lot of info at www.glamisdunes.com.

Good BBS at them.

Join the ASA. Do it today. IT'S FREE! TO JOIN!

Join the BlueRibbon Coalition. It's nationwide. Only costs $30 for a year. It all helps.

Never give up. Remain angry. Fight back.

And keep a sense of humor.

 

Exactly right,

I never had any intention of pointing the finger squarely at any one person,and starting a big fight,I am merely pointing out that even ONE person can make impressions that stick in everyones mind and cloud there opinion forever. This spring,the Minneapolis Star Tribune ran a HUGE front page picture of a DNR set aside area for atv's to mud in, but the paper posted a big headline "WHEN ATVS TAKE TO THE ROAD,MOTHER NATURE PAYS THE PRICE" not bothering to make it clear the area shown was SUPPOSED to look torn up,the DNR allowed this one area to satisfy the mud hungry crowd. This turned into a 3 day tirade on the evils of ATVs,and the disregard of laws that,according to them,all ATV riders had. These articles have had a profound impact on the public view of our sport,and the DNR has even closed some trails this spring,citing 'wet conditions' as the main reason. One of the big pictures they used against us in that article was picture of Spider Lake trail system,it showed a disgusted trail hiker and his dog standing by a sign that clearly read: NO MOTORIZED VEHICLES PAST THIS POINT, but there,as large as life,were deep,muddy tire ruts from several ATVs. This is the point I was trying to make,the people that disregarded the law and the sign made their point,-ha ha ,you can't stop me from riding where I want- but the tree ***** gleefully snapped a bunch of pictures and presented them to the paper as all the "proof" they needed.Now we in Minnesota are facing not only riding restrictions, but the closures of many of our favorite trail systems. That is why I originally replied,a single act of defiance can sometimes come back to haunt us for a long time.I do apolgize if I offended anyone,it was never my intent to blame,just explain my side of my opinion.

Thank you.

 

Its too bad about marienvilles trail system, I have been going up there once a year for 5 years (I live all the way across the state)

I agree with you 100% mx87trx, Pennsylvania is out of control, especially when a private resort can get $70,000 of public trail money to build trails for single poker run then turn it into a hiking trail. Thankfully I havent and wont be registering my quad so they havent gotten any of my money other than fuel taxes. Now, if they wanted to get my funds they can collect them where I will be - on the trail.

Pennsylvania is severely mismanaged, all the doctors are leaving, lawsuits are driving corporations out, taxes are driving big business out, registrations and inspections for cars is even out of control (I have had 4 license plates in the last four years) and we have the worst roads in the entire US according to the truckers union. The one thing no one has a problem with is our biggest import - garbage! from newyork and new jersey.. Trash heap of the US!!

"You've got a friend in PA" - who will take out your garbage, and pay through the nose to do it too...

 

FINALLY ANOTHER PENNSYLVANIAN SPEAKS UP, ABOUT DANG TIME. I understand where trapper and 95wolv are coming from 100%, but warrior007 has ridden the same trails and been held under the same rules and regulations as me, AND LOOK HOW ANGRY HE IS. I honestly understand that this is a national war, but like I said earlier each battle is more difficult than the other. I believe that in PA we are fighting one of the most, if not THE most, one sided battles in the country. We are a medium sized state with a little under 12 million permanent residents. I believe thats 7th in the country(I may be wrong), but we have barely any riding spots to begin with, now the state **** are actually closing alot of old railway and mine systems, which are completely useless for anything other than riding. Most of these areas are in the older areas of Pa(mid & east). I am in western Pa 3 miles from the Ohio border, and I do about 80% of my riding in Ohio. I think that Ohio may be the most hassle free state to ride.

Pennsylvania is completely out of control. Thats all there is too it, and its sad to say that unless you live in Pa you arent going to agree with me, or even understand how bad it is here.

 

you hit the nail on the head with the title of this post - priceless

are you going to marienville for memorial day?

 

NO I wont be there for Memorial day, in fact I dont think I will be riding in Marienville for a long time. Its just not my kinda riding up there.....although I do enjoy the mountain food and the large intake of alcoholic beverages....lol.