how to become a lobbiest?
#11
02-25-2003 | 07:15 PM
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#12
02-25-2003 | 07:31 PM
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Range Rover
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how to become a lobbiest?
Hi John, it came to me the other night, I was thinking witch would be harder to get. .. the SE michigan trail system or get the state to repeal its ban on orvs for rural use( no citys access or state and county hwy access) if we could figure out how to turn the law ,then we wouldn't need the trail system, it wouldn't be a necessity. and the state could still inforce all the helmet and passenger laws. the reason I say to work toward this , it could be easer because there is a law that is very close right now,if you look at the orv's prohibited act, there are exceptions at the end, one gives farmers the use of road easments without the purchase of a permet. and all the state would have to do is make it a open riding law for rual use. it would generate a lot of money for the state.
#14
03-01-2003 | 03:03 PM
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how to become a lobbiest?
Rc71:
Hope I didn't come across as implying that 'you' should have any answers to all these questions as I asked them of riders in general and I certainly apoligize. As with Yetti and Quadstock; I appreciate any Michigan rider that doesn't feel uncomfortable talking about these issues outside the confines of a 'restricted' forum. I also realize that anything you say on here will be scrutinized by others and that makes me appreciate it all the more.
Yetti:
Within the confines of written communication; I'm not sure I fully understand your suggestion as to repealing the lower peninsula's ban on off-road use as an 'alternative' to building a SE MI. riding area. Here are my thoughts, which I hope speak somewhat to what you are saying:
The SE MI. (Detroit) riding area is about much more than 'additional' trails. By last account; Michigan had the longest inter-connected trail system in the nation(some 3,000 miles). When you add the 10 counties in the Upper Peninsula who allow the non-documented 'back road' riding that you mention was banned down here....................there is 'plenty' of opportunity!(let's not even talk about converting some of our motorcycle trails to multi-use; which nobody has the 'kahunas' to talk about).
What this new riding area is 'about[', you guessed it, is money and convenience(yes, 'necessarily' in that order).
Any area built will be 'pay to play' and any speed shop/dealer's association within a 150 mile radius of the only 'convenient' place to ride in a large metropolitan area will benefit 'more than a little'.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] Look at the players involved in this effort and draw your own conclusions(oh, I forgot, nobody wants to talk about it!). And if your a SE MI. club member whose primary stated goal is to establish this area..................you have plenty of time to talk about 'who's going to bring the doughnuts' if your leader is already committed to giving you the only thing you really desire (besides maybe 'grooming' the next closest trails to 'home'.)
I'm sorry, but the 'first' atv trail groomer should be bought when the 'last' atv trail is properly maintained enough to take one down each and every one of them. And if any club has 'other' goals which take priority over making this happen? They are certainly not a true representative of ALL the riders in our state.
Isn't it funny how we all just 'avoid' trails like the Little 'O'; Cedar Creek, Tomahawk, etc. because they are not properly maintained; but the founding thrust of a new club's efforts(with sole representative 'unelected' power) is to build a trail out their back door and buy groomers for the closest trails past the city lights?!
I'm sorry, Yetti; but given all the transgressions that have occured due to riders in our state since that ban was passed...........................I don't think there's a chance in he11 that this state's legislative body would 'ever' open the Lower Peninsula to what we had before. I certainly may be wrong on this; but appreciate your thoughts on another way to convince these people that fixing what we have is far more important than selling what you've got.
John
Hope I didn't come across as implying that 'you' should have any answers to all these questions as I asked them of riders in general and I certainly apoligize. As with Yetti and Quadstock; I appreciate any Michigan rider that doesn't feel uncomfortable talking about these issues outside the confines of a 'restricted' forum. I also realize that anything you say on here will be scrutinized by others and that makes me appreciate it all the more.
Yetti:
Within the confines of written communication; I'm not sure I fully understand your suggestion as to repealing the lower peninsula's ban on off-road use as an 'alternative' to building a SE MI. riding area. Here are my thoughts, which I hope speak somewhat to what you are saying:
The SE MI. (Detroit) riding area is about much more than 'additional' trails. By last account; Michigan had the longest inter-connected trail system in the nation(some 3,000 miles). When you add the 10 counties in the Upper Peninsula who allow the non-documented 'back road' riding that you mention was banned down here....................there is 'plenty' of opportunity!(let's not even talk about converting some of our motorcycle trails to multi-use; which nobody has the 'kahunas' to talk about).
What this new riding area is 'about[', you guessed it, is money and convenience(yes, 'necessarily' in that order).
Any area built will be 'pay to play' and any speed shop/dealer's association within a 150 mile radius of the only 'convenient' place to ride in a large metropolitan area will benefit 'more than a little'.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] Look at the players involved in this effort and draw your own conclusions(oh, I forgot, nobody wants to talk about it!). And if your a SE MI. club member whose primary stated goal is to establish this area..................you have plenty of time to talk about 'who's going to bring the doughnuts' if your leader is already committed to giving you the only thing you really desire (besides maybe 'grooming' the next closest trails to 'home'.)
I'm sorry, but the 'first' atv trail groomer should be bought when the 'last' atv trail is properly maintained enough to take one down each and every one of them. And if any club has 'other' goals which take priority over making this happen? They are certainly not a true representative of ALL the riders in our state.
Isn't it funny how we all just 'avoid' trails like the Little 'O'; Cedar Creek, Tomahawk, etc. because they are not properly maintained; but the founding thrust of a new club's efforts(with sole representative 'unelected' power) is to build a trail out their back door and buy groomers for the closest trails past the city lights?!
I'm sorry, Yetti; but given all the transgressions that have occured due to riders in our state since that ban was passed...........................I don't think there's a chance in he11 that this state's legislative body would 'ever' open the Lower Peninsula to what we had before. I certainly may be wrong on this; but appreciate your thoughts on another way to convince these people that fixing what we have is far more important than selling what you've got.
John
#15
03-01-2003 | 05:44 PM
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Range Rover
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how to become a lobbiest?
John, I'm sorry to here that you think my idea is a lost cause. I realize that nothing worth having is easy. and I don't intend to stop looking for alternatives. I hope that someone in lansing reads this stuff and relays what they learn to our new govenor, if she has any idea what it would do for michigan and its economy(tourisum). canada thrives on it ,and they could give a rats about dragging more industry in to the back country. they want the people to open trails and make it a place worth going. it wouldn't take much for our blind leaders to see what monies they have forsaken. I hope that this reaches some one who cares![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img]
#16
03-02-2003 | 11:16 AM
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how to become a lobbiest?
Yetti;
I just think that you should run your idea past our orv board representative and ask HIM to tell you exactly what chance your idea has of becomming reality and if 'he' will support it(why fight it on your own?). We would all certainly be anxious to hear what he has to say on this and at the same time; you might ask him what he thinks about some of the other issues you've brought up on here in the past(just make sure you come back on here and let us all know what the 'official' position actually is on all this!).
It's a great concept, yetti; but all roads to 'reform' run right through that board and any attempt to circumvent the 'other' off-road users in this state(which our representative is going to consult, before the meeting ever 'starts'); is pretty much DOA(IMO).
John
I just think that you should run your idea past our orv board representative and ask HIM to tell you exactly what chance your idea has of becomming reality and if 'he' will support it(why fight it on your own?). We would all certainly be anxious to hear what he has to say on this and at the same time; you might ask him what he thinks about some of the other issues you've brought up on here in the past(just make sure you come back on here and let us all know what the 'official' position actually is on all this!).
It's a great concept, yetti; but all roads to 'reform' run right through that board and any attempt to circumvent the 'other' off-road users in this state(which our representative is going to consult, before the meeting ever 'starts'); is pretty much DOA(IMO).
John
#17
03-02-2003 | 05:58 PM
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#18
03-02-2003 | 07:36 PM
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how to become a lobbiest?
I sincerely wish the best of luck to you on this; as it certainly sounds like your idea is probably the only way we will obtain more mileage down here that need not necessarily be constantly maintained (seasonal/fire roads, etc.). Even a 'few' roads/areas being opened up would be a significant accomplishment when considering what all was lost in this peninsula.
Again, good luck in finding your answers.
John
Again, good luck in finding your answers.
John
#19
03-03-2003 | 03:14 AM
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how to become a lobbiest?
As I understand it,ALL ORV trails in Michigan [including Cycle] are going to be groomed at 60 inches,starting with this yr?The CCC or Cycle Conservation Club does not want this and I appreciate their committment to keep them at 22 inches on the ground for cycles,however,this does NOTHING to support the ATVer who AlSO spends 16.25 for an ORV sticker.This new and additional wider grooming will take MANY yrs and MANY VOLUNTEERS to make this happen.I also beleive it will ''drive''up the cost of the allready ''to high''priced ORV stickers UP form the current 16.25?
Instead,
why not OPEN up the Forest roads in the Lower Pennisula again,like it was in the pre-1991 era and leave the designated trail system the way it is?This would cost very little to do in comparison to cutting all 3000 miles of designated trails to 60 inches and keep the cyclist happy at the same time.
It bothers me greatly that the forest roads we USED to have access to in the LP,I cannot ride anymore.What a WASTE of a forest road and a direct hit to the safe and responsable ATVer?
Sincerly,
Bill G
Atv Safety Instructor
Instead,
why not OPEN up the Forest roads in the Lower Pennisula again,like it was in the pre-1991 era and leave the designated trail system the way it is?This would cost very little to do in comparison to cutting all 3000 miles of designated trails to 60 inches and keep the cyclist happy at the same time.
It bothers me greatly that the forest roads we USED to have access to in the LP,I cannot ride anymore.What a WASTE of a forest road and a direct hit to the safe and responsable ATVer?
Sincerly,
Bill G
Atv Safety Instructor