What really amazes 'me'; is that I brought up this very same subject (trail widening) about a year or so ago and the (cough) 'leaders' did everything in their power to:

#1) effectively avoid the subject and give (at best) half-*** answers regarding it......

#2) encourage others to 'minimalize' the subject and anybody that thought it was a legitimate issue.......

and

#3) finally make sure that this subject wasn't discussed 'again'; by banning anybody wishing to discuss it from the club forum!

Gee, is it any wonder why they didn't want these particular 'politics' discussed by their members(?)...............heck, they were smack dab in the middle of getting this same 'taboo' widening issue...............shoved down their throats by people who'd had enough of their 60 inch double talk!

And then to leave all these unanswered member's questions just 'sitting there', on the club forum; in the same manner that has been demonstrated when somebody else asked them, so long ago?

Must be us 'rural' folk just don't understand how things work over there in the 'big city'....................................[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

P.S. To yetti; whose post I just read above, after typing mine..................................I guess I'm just too much of a conservative on the 'YOU' have to do this for 'me' issue. Unfortunately, the dealers have absolutely no incentive to bring up the 'trails' issue with their potential customers...yet isn't the overall condition of these same trails 'exactly' what I have been hollering about all along and why the Michigan Motorcycle Dealer's Association is the ONLY organization behind these senators and this bill?

I would agree with you that some sort of word needs to get out about our rights and the present condition of our trails.................. and could it be that the more people who realize that we have a (cough) 'multi-use' system that is largely narrow and in disrepair........................that even 'less' machines would be sold and the quicker something would be done about it?

The MMDA just doesn't part with their 'favored son' on an issue of this size; over nothing. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
.

 

Yetti,
ATV salesman have very little reason to inform their customers about the trail systems in Mich because 95% of them dont know a damn thing about it themselves and it PAYS no commisions.And the same 95% of them know very little [IF anything?]about ATV safety,classes,or related issues?

Im an ATV Safety Instructor.I make it a point to make sure that the dealers and repairshops[about 15 of them] in my area are well informed with trail issues/laws and ATV Safety information/pamplets on a MONTHLY basis.And unlike some other ATV safety cirricullums,I dont ''charge'' a fee for this service,its all free and im happy to do it.

A dealership that is well informed with the information I give them,will only benifit them in the long haul,because those informed customers are happy customers and a happy customer will be returning in the future.

John,
I've pretty much concluded to the fact that my questions regarding this SB100 and LP trail widening is of little to NO interest to our club official,its been 2 weeks and still no answers to my questions from him.This irritates me to the extent that I really dont find many reasons to further support this kind of inactivity.Im responsable for numerous folks joining this ATV club in the last three years.If a member cant get a response from his OWN clubs leaders,than I start to question just ''WHAT'' is it I am supporting?

Im not saying that we MUST agree on all the issue's at hand,however,does it not merit at least a response??

Sincerly,
Blackballed #2

 

Bill,

Even if everybody else is getting some kind 'private' e-mail answer instead of you(which I doubt).................there are more than a few 'close' members and administrators who darn well know that this kind of 'where did he go' crap; doesn't do a damn thing for those potential members thinking about sending their money in. A simple so and so's not availiable or a "Guys, I know this is important to you, but 'hang on'...... by ANY NUMBER of people 'in the know'; could have given this whole 'non-answer', a chance to get settled professionally.

Doesn't anybody ever wonder what in the heck the Director of Public Relations actually has as their job description or why you rarely hear from the 'Director' of Operations and the 'Vice-President' of Operations..................both of who are supposedly one in the same and the club's "#2" man? Are these two people not even 'allowed' to comment on matters such as this; or does this just vividly illustrate where all the decisions regarding our sport are (what I would call) 'exclusively' being made?

Gosh, has there been 'that' many people bringing up multiple 'hot topics for consideration'; or is this actually the first one (granted it's only from everyday members) IN HOW LONG?!

Here's another subject that, I'd bet the farm, a club representative hasn't bothered 'discussing' with your average peon club member:

Let's say the legislature gets this widening issue past these orv clubs and accomplishes what they set out to do.

Does anybody believe that the cyclists are just going to lay down and not demand some kind of 'compromise'?

Since we seem to have had some trouble getting somebody to tell us all exactly how many trails 'he' thinks these motorcyclists should be able to keep at a maintained 24 inches...........where do 'we' all start?

Would it be only the cycle trails which already 'have' a mandated square lineal foot impact limit for a certain area and are 'presently' lawfully limited in that way? Or are you in the camp that believes any law should be worded as to push for future expansion in this narrow width; due to the realistic limits of our (signed and maintained) trail resource, as a whole?

Exactly HOW MUCH is each and every member willing to let them HAVE (and don't think they won't try to make this as 'permenant' as possible) and exactly WHERE do you believe they should have it? Remember, your voice (as an enthusisast who currently outsells their rigs; 3 to 1) is JUST AS IMPORTANT as theirs in shaping the future outline of our trail system.

I'm sure that the 'administration' was going to give us all a chance to comment on this very issue and certainly wouldn't try and work this formula up 'amongst themselves' or at any time before the next 'quarterly' meeting.................................

Simply food for thought. Does anybody think that the motyorcycle leadership is all that concerned about which way the quad leaders are going to 'force' their upcoming compromise strategy; when they seemingly believe that any maintained trails we have presently; only came from 'their' generosity in the first place?

Hey, these are ONLY the same trails you will have to tell your grandchildren are 'off-limits' and will definitely always be a factor when law enforcement starts complaining about 'off-trail' atvs in the vicinity of these same (what would then be; formerly) 'multi-use' trails.

Nah, what am I talking about.....................I'm sure everybody will be consulted beforehand................look how much we all know about what's going on now! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

I asked you, Bill (and you 'failed'; as when you first put this question in my "Ask the President' column) to do this, as I felt that I was very clear what my position was in the meeting.

If I was not, then I can act like our fearless Michigan atv leader:
Learn by 'reading the views of others' and 'what they came away from the meeting' with. This will tell me if I communicated effectively in the meeting or not (and for the rest of you mere 'members' who had pertinent questions for me; directly after my 'non-answer'? would you please adress them 'back' to my 'Ask the President' topic where my assistant will screen them all for proper content)

Yet I will <U>NOT</U> further explain myself!!! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!!

I am still determining if I communicated effectively and after the next meeting in 4 months; we will play this same game 'again' and I will then DETERMINE some more, without further comment!!!

My position was very clear!!! I WILL NOT make any public commentary beyond the confines of a Moose Lodge every 4 months!!!

Look at what happened after I solemnly swore you all to secrecy at the lodge and decreed that you would all maintain 'my' trails at 60 inches!!! Why....why...why.....we discovered 'traitors' who would take our top secret business PUBLIC and allow these nasty little ARGO people to ask for the same damn thing!!! The 'nerve' of these fellow orv enthusiasts!!!

Do you members want your leader to 'get' you your Southeast Michigan riding area? Then we must CRUSH the infidels from the 'west' and keep our 'Detroit' trails on course to be widened and groomed like no other!!!

We are now going to take this club even FURTHER 'underground'; because you peon members just don't understand what 'evil' we are so valiantly out there protecting you from!!!

16 days and counting since the 'unthinkable' was first asked [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img].................................................. ....

 

John,
I mean,how else do you take a ''no response''???Im a little tired of this ''sit back and wait''approach to without any responses.

Thank you for HIS answer[lol]

 

I've encountered so many 'non-responses' in the last 2 or 3 years..........and mind you, these all pertained to simple, legitimate and DIRECT questions; many of which were foreshadowed then and are now more pertinent than ever today.............that it has just become 'laughable'.

Again, I have no problem with anybody who chooses to follow this administration around and hang on their (actually 'his') every word..................................I just don't choose to be associated with a leader that somehow believes that he and he alone (or along with as many members as he believes can be convinced to keep their mouths shut) is going to be the sole proprietor of our trail system's future.

And maybe (with the scant number of Michigan riders who have been willing to srap a set on and speak up for themselves) they may actually prove that a small 'family', with an unelected administration, can actually take these issues and 'own' every single one of them!...................................I mean, who in the hell has questioned any 'blow-off' or 'non-answer'; up to this point?

What has anybody witnessed so far that would prevent them from shaping their own policies? Honestly, when I look at the caliber of people involved in cycle and snowmobile issues and their obvious 'NO B.S.' old-school intellect and unending commitment..........................just how would you characterize the average atver who has kept his or her mouth shut for 'how' long through all this and especially with this groundbreaking legislation before them? What are they all doing; waiting for their 'leader' to give them the word that they've 'smartened up' enough to the point that they can start having a say a little more often than every 4 months?

For gosh sakes, somebody has gotten them all believing that 'they' will ultimately be the judge of these member's significance in shaping orv policy! And the motorcyclists are lovin' it!

That's one of the reasons that I see Senator Garcia's legislation as a way of knocking BOTH of these groups down a peg or two and maybe paving the way for new groups to be formed without being beaten over the head with this "holier than thou......you have to go through 'me'......we'll drop out of the program" type attitude.

Until then; you won't see many new groups willing to do 'cartwheels' in order to get questions answered and deals struck with these administrations..................and they, frankly, 'know it' [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

About all you and I can point to is that we got the word out.........................what anybody will have chosen to do with it from there???..................that is really the question our 'grandchildren' will be asking us, for years to come.