My whole point on the matter is that we are said to contribute 1/2 of 1% to the CO2 levels on this planet. The whole theory of global warming rests on a 1 degree temperature rise in the past 100 years. The solution is said to be strictly in our hands. It does not take into account flare ups on the sun, sun spots, the suns magnetic activity, or massive producers like volcanoes. And, even then, for every "sign" of global warming there are contradictory signs elsewhere. For this, the governments of the world want us (the US) to spend vast amounts of money, implimenting "cap and trade" that will cost individual consumers hundreds to thousands of dollars per year depending on who is making the projection. If pollution is the main cause of global warming (again, if it is really a problem) we should be going after the nations or states that are polluting the worst. That would be India, China, (don't remember the third) and the state of California. But, I doubt we'll see any money from the first two. We are already trillions of dollars in debt and they want to spend money on what is essentially a high stakes gamble. I think the natural cycles of the weather are absolutely intriguing. As DeeDawg stated, there IS evidence that the Midwest has seen everything from tropical weather to an ice age. Did we cause these changes??? NO. And these were massive changes. Even all the dinosaurs farting out methane didn't bring the ice age on. A big meteor maybe. We've had mini ice ages including the 1800s when volcanoes like Krakatoa have erupted and cause major climate shifts. It snowed in July here in New England. It was known as the year without a summer. Before we rush off and spend trillions of dollars we don't have, I want to see the "science" set in concrete, not as divided as it is.

 

Is that 1/2 of 1% per year? Or total since man's existence?

And, who says?

And, does it even matter? Does CO2 cause higher temps or does higher temps cause higher CO2? Or are they completely unrelated? Does donut comsumption cause higher temps? If I show you a graph of donut consumption and a graph of temps, can you say because they're both going up that they must be correlated, lol?

 

Certainly makes one ponder this particular study....if the person who wrote this article isn't distorting it for political purposes about what really happened and why. However, it doesn't distort or have any bearing on the 1000 other studies. We'd really have to hear from these people and listen to them debate to make a solid judgment. There's too much crap mixed into the topic on both sides. They should televise some kind of national debate.

 

Both sides have good reason to lie.

Like I've said before on other threads.... I can only believe my own eyes. Back then, we had 5 yrs or so of drought, the governor of GA was holding public prayer meetings for rain, a whole planting-zone had shifted north from 15yrs ago (Hardiness Zone Changes at arborday.org - press play), 80 yr old men were saying they've never seen anything like this, etc, etc. But now, we're having more rain than anyone can remember. Its not that hot. So, I have no idea what to make of it. I just hope my figs come back up and can survive into next year. So far, I've seen them die off each yr since I've lived here. Figs need a lot of water and, like frogs, they're the first to go in a climate change.

 

We have to lead by example, then slowly force them into submission through trade barriers. That's the plan anyway.


No argument there on prior conditions. The problem is that our nation will not resemble economically what it was. Think of all the changes and the problems if we lost our cold regions. Where would you get your maple syrup Moose? What about Vermont and NH tourist industry if it stops snowing? What about the snowmobile and ski industry in this country. What about all the people that plow snow for a living, sell home heating oil, grow crops, the list is endless. You can have a rain forest anywhere you want, but you're not going to have the USA as it currently exists.

True, but you can't bank on meteors and volcanoes.

We need more debate for sure. However the policy makers are looking at something like 50 for global warming vs. 1 against. I don't think there's any stopping it at this point. Too much international pressure as well.

 

Btw, not sure if you guys knew or not... They say that during global warming the north will get colder due to alterations in the ocean currents. I hear a lot of people up north talking about a yard full of snow being a reason to laugh at global warming.

 

Randy: That's part of the predicted problem that supposed to get worse....weather variability. Some regions of the country will be hit harder than others, it's not a consistent temperature rise. It's more related to harsh weather patterns (tornadoes,floods,blight,drought, etc.). You might just be describing the beginning stages....Forget the CO2 level reports and try to find some reports on the predicted effects in 30 years (if it happens). It's not a pretty vision for the USA. What if other countries take a bigger hit than us in North American (as predicted). They'll be needing more aid and maybe even try an assault on our relatively stable land. There's lots of dooms day stories out there. The answer always seems to lie somewhere in between.

 

I've seen the horror stories on the learning channels. If the GW crowd is right, we better do something fast. If they aren't, then its a lot of to-do about nothing. So now what? What can I do? What can you do? I'm not a scientist. I'm not even sure I can believe the scientists that are. And to complicate things, for every guy that says GW is a problem, there is a guy that says it isn't.

In the 70's, an impending ice-age was the big concern. In the 80's, it was the ozone (whatever happened with that anyway???). And now everybody is freaking out about GW. I wonder what the next big paranoia will be?

 

I think you hit the nail on the head as we carpenters like to say. Almost all of the predictions that started around the turn of the century haven't come to be. New York is not underwater, we haven't been hit with hurricanes of the magnitude they predicted (Thankfully. I went down to Mississippi after Katrina. It was amazing the damage done by the part of the storm that was class 2) And now they are calling it Global Climate Change as the past ten years has seen a 1/2 degree decrease in temperature worldwide.

To give an example of how weather has been in the past ten years up here in NE is to look at how things go on ten year spurts up here anyway. This year was average. Cold start. Early snow. Not so much later in the season. Last winter was average with NH, VT, and ME having great skiing and good old maple syrup production. The year before saw record snowfall north of Concord, NH and average down this way. The year previous to this saw unseasonably warm weather. We heard alot about global warming that year. Etc. The year that freaked me out the most was about 6 years ago??? We had something like 8 weeks below freezing with the 6 weeks in the middle below 20 and the 4 weeks in the very center below 10. It was record cold. The Concord river flows through Billerica and it is rare to see snowmobiles on it even in the dead of winter. They snowmobiled down the center of the river for 6 weeks. I never saw this in my whole life.

I've seen what they've said about global warming causing global cooling??? The idea is that the polar caps melt which floods the global oceanic currents to cool and slow down. This could stall cold waters in the North and warmer waters in the South. If this were to come true then you could start seeing more powerful hurricanes as warm waters off the coast fuel hurricanes but it hasn't happened. I still am leery of people telling me what is going to happen 10, 20, 30, etc. years in the future when they aren't very good at calling the weather 2 days ahead of time.

It's a lot of your and my wallet we're debating here. The government is not a money making industry. It all comes from the pockets of private industry and citizens.

 

Yep, I agree. The only thing that had me worked-up up until this year was the prolonged drought we've had. And the fact that we haven't seen snow since 1993. It used to snow all the time when I was a kid in the 80's. I have pics of snowmen I built to prove it! lol Now we MIGHT get a dusting sometime at night, but by morning its long gone.

Its not hard to sell someone who hasn't seen snow in 15 yrs and is in the midst of a drought that spurs public prayer meetings from the governor that global warming is real. I know I was looking for answers. We have PLENTY of rain now. We've had a foot so far in May when the average is only 4 inches.... Plus what we got in April and March, which was a lot. Now if we get some snow this winter, I'll put the whole GW thing to bed for good.