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I Apologize for hating America so much

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Old Mar 17, 2012 | 09:54 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Lolumad273
I'm disappointed that my age has made my case less legitimate... The thinkers that I draw influence from were experienced in the workings of society. These ideas have only been put into language in the last 200 years, and have never been put into practice. History shows us nothing about the practicality of these ideas.

I prefer to believe that people don't need to be told what to do. I believe in self management and autonomy. I can't imagine society collapsing if business owners didn't tell employees what to do. I'm sure that employees know well enough how to manage day to day operations of a business, however they may not be versed in profit making... Which in my eyes is an evil that shouldn't exist.

I can't stress enough how Communism isn't about taking the wealth of the "Doers"...

Because someone is rich doesn't mean they work hard. Hard work really doesn't equal large wealth. I bet Chinese factory workers, who live at their jobs, work excruciatingly long hours, aren't rich.
This paragraph shows the naivete of youth.
 
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Old Mar 17, 2012 | 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Lolumad273
History shows us nothing about the practicality of these ideas.
You need a lot more history lessons, because history shows us the impracticality of these ideas.
 
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Old Mar 17, 2012 | 10:00 AM
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So Lolumad, besides being in high school, what do you do??
Do you hold a job or do you feel you would be robbed by the the evil profit making bosses if you did???
How do you ever plan on supporting yourself??? Or will you continue to live with Mom and Dad?
 
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Old Mar 17, 2012 | 12:09 PM
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If you want to call China Communist, even though it clearly isn't, then the ideas that I stated before, I will now refer to as "Egalitarian". Because they are radically different from what is in place in China.

I'm well versed in history, but if you could point to a time in history where real egalitarianism has been tried, not one party dictatorships, or deformed workers' states... I would quite enjoy reading about it. I know for a fact that the "Paris Commune", although only in existence for a few months, was a near perfectly realized form of a Decentralized planned economy... Egalitarian.

So you believe people can't manage themselves, and need to be told what to do? I suppose Democracy is inherently wrong then? People need to be told what to do, they need to be managed in a top-down manner? I suppose dictatorship is most efficient, and just, in that case.

All I suggested, if you boil it right down to the core, is that democracy is defended vehemently in government, why shouldn't we expand this to our places of employment? We're so willing to accept dictatorship, and according to you, that is just.

Other than high school, I have a few hobbies, and work at a local garden center. They are a very small company, and don't really make a particularly large profit, I honestly believe they do what they do because they love doing it. I recognize the constraints of current society, and intend to operate within its limitations. Living with my parents would serve no one's interest.
 
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Old Mar 17, 2012 | 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Lolumad273
If you want to call China Communist, even though it clearly isn't, then the ideas that I stated before, I will now refer to as "Egalitarian". Because they are radically different from what is in place in China.

I'm well versed in history, but if you could point to a time in history where real egalitarianism has been tried, not one party dictatorships, or deformed workers' states... I would quite enjoy reading about it. I know for a fact that the "Paris Commune", although only in existence for a few months, was a near perfectly realized form of a Decentralized planned economy... Egalitarian.

So you believe people can't manage themselves, and need to be told what to do? I suppose Democracy is inherently wrong then? People need to be told what to do, they need to be managed in a top-down manner? I suppose dictatorship is most efficient, and just, in that case.

All I suggested, if you boil it right down to the core, is that democracy is defended vehemently in government, why shouldn't we expand this to our places of employment? We're so willing to accept dictatorship, and according to you, that is just.

Other than high school, I have a few hobbies, and work at a local garden center. They are a very small company, and don't really make a particularly large profit, I honestly believe they do what they do because they love doing it. I recognize the constraints of current society, and intend to operate within its limitations. Living with my parents would serve no one's interest.
By your own definition, this makes them evil thieves.
Or are small profits acceptable but large ones are not?
 
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Old Mar 17, 2012 | 12:33 PM
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It means that they're living within the confines of society. I can't expect to live without masters in the current society. Would I prefer a less exploitative master to a more exploitative master, I think so, yes.

Ideally, profits wouldn't exist, because money wouldn't exist. Right now, however, profits are part of what goes on.

Didn't address any of my other points... I can't help but feel that if I were speaking of conservatism and religion, I wouldn't get called naive, and my age wouldn't matter a bit. It's a bit disappointing. If my age really stands in the way of these ideas being taken as reasonable, even though I've articulated them in a perfectly reasonable way, then I expect any teenager with any political ideas that may or may not be in line with your own, to be equally naive, and discredited. But I don't believe I would observe that.
 
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Old Mar 17, 2012 | 12:39 PM
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Well, you keep changing what you call it. Now it's "Egalitarianism".
It seems like you will choose whatever term you want to support your unsupportable argument.

I don't address many of your points because they are too absurd to even address.
 
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Old Mar 17, 2012 | 12:50 PM
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I made clear why I changed the name! Because even though I have provided mountains of evidence against China being Communist, everyone still buys the lie that it is! Even though all my ideas are clearly not present in China, everyone still says that China is an example of it!

I am an Anarcho Communist. Egalitarianism is a society where everyone is equal. Communism is Egalitarian in nature. I have not changed a thing.

My points haven't been ridiculous at all.
You told me I needed a history lesson, I asked you for one. I think that's reasonable.

Then you said people can't manage themselves, I asked you how Democracy works. I think that's reasonable. You're refusing to address them.
 
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Old Mar 17, 2012 | 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Lolumad273
It means that they're living within the confines of society. I can't expect to live without masters in the current society. Would I prefer a less exploitative master to a more exploitative master, I think so, yes.

Ideally, profits wouldn't exist, because money wouldn't exist. Right now, however, profits are part of what goes on.

Didn't address any of my other points... I can't help but feel that if I were speaking of conservatism and religion, I wouldn't get called naive, and my age wouldn't matter a bit. It's a bit disappointing. If my age really stands in the way of these ideas being taken as reasonable, even though I've articulated them in a perfectly reasonable way, then I expect any teenager with any political ideas that may or may not be in line with your own, to be equally naive, and discredited. But I don't believe I would observe that.
I feel sorry for you for feeling that your employers are your "masters".
 
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Old Mar 17, 2012 | 01:03 PM
  #70  
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Not really a conversation anymore. I'm going to stop this now, as it has stopped being productive.
 
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