OT: Must see video
Oct 27, 2004 | 04:06 PM
#1
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OT: Must see video
Someone sent me a link to a disturbing video. I watched it in its entirety. I don't want to get any flame wars going but I encourage you to watch the video and you make your own personal decision regarding if its truthful or a fabrication or simply politically motivated. Whatever the case, it's worthy of a watch. Especially from the standpoint of truly appreciateing what the men of our Country experienced.
Watch Stolen Honor - Windows MediaPlayer (Broadband)
Watch Stolen Honor - Windows MediaPlayer (Dial-Up)
Watch Stolen Honor - Real Player
Watch Stolen Honor - Windows MediaPlayer (Broadband)
Watch Stolen Honor - Windows MediaPlayer (Dial-Up)
Watch Stolen Honor - Real Player
Oct 27, 2004 | 10:18 PM
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OT: Must see video
Wow! I had not watched this before. Certainly every voter should be aware of these comments. I have met Leo Thorsness. He served in the Washington State Legislature with my mother (he was in the Senate and she was in the House). He is an honorable man who sacrificed much for our nation.
Oct 28, 2004 | 01:09 AM
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OT: Must see video
The suffering and plight of America's service men and women during the Vietnam campaign has been documented many times and is undeniable.
But this is the swiftboat veterans video, and its political implications are well known. Draw what conclusions you will, but this video will not change anyone's mind. Those who view it will only come to the conclusion that is inline with the beliefs and convictions they had before they watched it.
Were Kerry's statements false? No. These things hes described were commited by US soldiers in vietnam during the war, though not by all. The conclusions and accusations brought out by the video are at the least over applied.
The timing and very fact that Kerry made the statements is another issue and I have no desire to get into any arguments about it. The video's claims of the use of this information and testimony is seriously exaggerated but thier exact impact is impossible to tell because all information on the issue is politically biased or flat out fabricated and covered up, on both sides.
Which, unfortunately, is the way it will stay. The data from the vietnam war is shrouded in secrecy and with the conflict over Bush and Kerry's service it will be further protected. Our only hope is to get as much information as possible and do our best to decide the truth for ourselves.
But this is the swiftboat veterans video, and its political implications are well known. Draw what conclusions you will, but this video will not change anyone's mind. Those who view it will only come to the conclusion that is inline with the beliefs and convictions they had before they watched it.
Were Kerry's statements false? No. These things hes described were commited by US soldiers in vietnam during the war, though not by all. The conclusions and accusations brought out by the video are at the least over applied.
The timing and very fact that Kerry made the statements is another issue and I have no desire to get into any arguments about it. The video's claims of the use of this information and testimony is seriously exaggerated but thier exact impact is impossible to tell because all information on the issue is politically biased or flat out fabricated and covered up, on both sides.
Which, unfortunately, is the way it will stay. The data from the vietnam war is shrouded in secrecy and with the conflict over Bush and Kerry's service it will be further protected. Our only hope is to get as much information as possible and do our best to decide the truth for ourselves.
Oct 28, 2004 | 01:25 PM
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OT: Must see video
You are correct that there are many unanswered questions about Kerry and his post-Vietnam activities. I, for one, do not question his service record. Here are a few questions that Kerry has not answered. I would like to know the answers.
What specific war crimes and attrocities did Kerry commit and witness? He stated on the Dick Cavett Show and Meet the Press that he had committed war crimes and he had personally witnessed attrocities.
If he witnessed crimes, why did he not report them to his superiors in the military, as required by military law? If he committed crimes, then....
Will he apologize for the the false testimony given at the Winter Soldier hearings, testimony he later repeated before the US Senate? Many of the witnesses have come forward and stated that they had given false witness at these hearings. Kerry has nver apologized.
What was Kerry doing in France meeting with the Viet Cong delegation? It is illegal for any American citizen to meet with the enemy in a time of war, unless they are a part of an official government delegation. Kerry went there of his own accord.
What did Kerry and the Viet Cong discuss in the two separate visits that Kerry had with them in France? He has never answered this question.
Did Kerry alert his superior officers that he would be meeting with the Viet Cong while he was still on active duty? Kerry had not yet been discharged from the Navy when he met with the enemy in France. That is a treasonous offense, subject to court martial, imprisonment and worse.
The American prisoners of war have given sworn testimony that Jane Fonda and other anti-war activists were in their prison camps while the war was still being waged. Kerry aligned himself with Fonda (there are photos of Kerry next to Fonda at anti-war rallies). Another visitor to these camps was a member of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, a group of which Kerry was the leader. Jane Fonda has apologized her for anti-American activities and the comfort she gave to the enemy. Kerry has not apologized.
On another note, I am shocked that you would challenge the credibility of these men who were medal winners and who spent many years in prisoner of war camps. I know Leo Thorsness. He is a very moderate man who is not prone to exaggeration. These men were tortured for not giving false statements about non-existent war crimes. Kerry gave false statements freely. His false statements were used by the Viet Cong as part of the psychological torture against our brave soldiers. The POWs stated that the VC played Kerry's testimony for them. How is that not giving aid and comfort to the enemy in a time of war?
What specific war crimes and attrocities did Kerry commit and witness? He stated on the Dick Cavett Show and Meet the Press that he had committed war crimes and he had personally witnessed attrocities.
If he witnessed crimes, why did he not report them to his superiors in the military, as required by military law? If he committed crimes, then....
Will he apologize for the the false testimony given at the Winter Soldier hearings, testimony he later repeated before the US Senate? Many of the witnesses have come forward and stated that they had given false witness at these hearings. Kerry has nver apologized.
What was Kerry doing in France meeting with the Viet Cong delegation? It is illegal for any American citizen to meet with the enemy in a time of war, unless they are a part of an official government delegation. Kerry went there of his own accord.
What did Kerry and the Viet Cong discuss in the two separate visits that Kerry had with them in France? He has never answered this question.
Did Kerry alert his superior officers that he would be meeting with the Viet Cong while he was still on active duty? Kerry had not yet been discharged from the Navy when he met with the enemy in France. That is a treasonous offense, subject to court martial, imprisonment and worse.
The American prisoners of war have given sworn testimony that Jane Fonda and other anti-war activists were in their prison camps while the war was still being waged. Kerry aligned himself with Fonda (there are photos of Kerry next to Fonda at anti-war rallies). Another visitor to these camps was a member of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, a group of which Kerry was the leader. Jane Fonda has apologized her for anti-American activities and the comfort she gave to the enemy. Kerry has not apologized.
On another note, I am shocked that you would challenge the credibility of these men who were medal winners and who spent many years in prisoner of war camps. I know Leo Thorsness. He is a very moderate man who is not prone to exaggeration. These men were tortured for not giving false statements about non-existent war crimes. Kerry gave false statements freely. His false statements were used by the Viet Cong as part of the psychological torture against our brave soldiers. The POWs stated that the VC played Kerry's testimony for them. How is that not giving aid and comfort to the enemy in a time of war?
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Oct 28, 2004 | 03:53 PM
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OT: Must see video
Originally posted by: RidinLCWA
On another note, I am shocked that you would challenge the credibility of these men who were medal winners and who spent many years in prisoner of war camps. I know Leo Thorsness. He is a very moderate man who is not prone to exaggeration. These men were tortured for not giving false statements about non-existent war crimes. Kerry gave false statements freely. His false statements were used by the Viet Cong as part of the psychological torture against our brave soldiers. The POWs stated that the VC played Kerry's testimony for them. How is that not giving aid and comfort to the enemy in a time of war?
On another note, I am shocked that you would challenge the credibility of these men who were medal winners and who spent many years in prisoner of war camps. I know Leo Thorsness. He is a very moderate man who is not prone to exaggeration. These men were tortured for not giving false statements about non-existent war crimes. Kerry gave false statements freely. His false statements were used by the Viet Cong as part of the psychological torture against our brave soldiers. The POWs stated that the VC played Kerry's testimony for them. How is that not giving aid and comfort to the enemy in a time of war?
Kerry's statements were not false, whether he knew them to be or not. Whether he had any right or reasoning to say them is another story.
Oct 28, 2004 | 06:55 PM
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OT: Must see video
speaking of war crimes, if this isnt one i dont know what is. i was talking to my friend who was in vietnam and he said what they would do to get info from the vietnimease (spelling) army would take them up in a helicopter and ask them a question and if he wouldnt answer throw him out from like 1500-2000 feet up and let him hit the tarmac. then they would ask the next one for info and if he didnt answer they would throw him out. when they got to the last guy they would spare him take him down and he tell his viet kong army buddies what the americans were doing up in the copter, and with the next group someone would spill all the info. that is a awesome tactic we did to get info.
Oct 29, 2004 | 05:23 AM
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OT: Must see video
Originally posted by: maddog56
The suffering and plight of America's service men and women during the Vietnam campaign has been documented many times and is undeniable.
But this is the swiftboat veterans video, and its political implications are well known. Draw what conclusions you will, but this video will not change anyone's mind. Those who view it will only come to the conclusion that is inline with the beliefs and convictions they had before they watched it.
Were Kerry's statements false? No. These things hes described were commited by US soldiers in vietnam during the war, though not by all. The conclusions and accusations brought out by the video are at the least over applied.
The timing and very fact that Kerry made the statements is another issue and I have no desire to get into any arguments about it. The video's claims of the use of this information and testimony is seriously exaggerated but thier exact impact is impossible to tell because all information on the issue is politically biased or flat out fabricated and covered up, on both sides.
Which, unfortunately, is the way it will stay. The data from the vietnam war is shrouded in secrecy and with the conflict over Bush and Kerry's service it will be further protected. Our only hope is to get as much information as possible and do our best to decide the truth for ourselves.
The suffering and plight of America's service men and women during the Vietnam campaign has been documented many times and is undeniable.
But this is the swiftboat veterans video, and its political implications are well known. Draw what conclusions you will, but this video will not change anyone's mind. Those who view it will only come to the conclusion that is inline with the beliefs and convictions they had before they watched it.
Were Kerry's statements false? No. These things hes described were commited by US soldiers in vietnam during the war, though not by all. The conclusions and accusations brought out by the video are at the least over applied.
The timing and very fact that Kerry made the statements is another issue and I have no desire to get into any arguments about it. The video's claims of the use of this information and testimony is seriously exaggerated but thier exact impact is impossible to tell because all information on the issue is politically biased or flat out fabricated and covered up, on both sides.
Which, unfortunately, is the way it will stay. The data from the vietnam war is shrouded in secrecy and with the conflict over Bush and Kerry's service it will be further protected. Our only hope is to get as much information as possible and do our best to decide the truth for ourselves.
MADDOG,
what unit were you with in nam? what dates?
because i never saw any of those things committed by any marines in my unit. if kerry witnessed those things, he should have stopped it then, not gripe about it later. to see evil and do nothing to stop it is as bad as doing the evil yourself.
-heywood-