ATV TELEVISION
#51
01-31-2002, 08:02 PM
#52
01-31-2002, 10:23 PM
Wow, you guys are cruel! And I believe a bit misguided. I'll bet that even if you've heard of the Asian Hot Rod market you'd say it was nothing, and yet it is growing so fast and is so powerful (that's powerful based on the amount of money each of these guys spends) that it has every marketing company's attention. Okay, how about an example a little closer to home. I grew up racing - motorcycles, dunebuggies, SCCA! When I eventually became a writer for ATV Magazine and the starting of ATV Sport I figured these guys couldn't do anything without me, because I was from California and racing and duning was all there was! I had never even swung a leg over an ATV with racks - who'd want to? But I quickly learned that the heart of the ATV market is not duning, not racing, not even sport quads, but guys in their 40s and up that use their ATV for work, hunting, and exploring. Trust me, I don't think that there's anything wrong with racing, but that's is not what ATV Television was started to cover. It was started to cover the much larger market of recreation utility ATVs! I cover the occaisional dune trip or race just because I love those things! So, that's my explanation on why there is not more sport stuff. That was never the intent of ATV Television! Not that someday there couldn't be an ATV Sport Television!!!
Now, for the episode that showed the ATVs going up the waterfalls. That route is a designated road! It has been since the town was built in the 1870's. What makes the whole trip such an adventure is that the road was washed away in a pair of serious desert flash floods and issolated the town of Panamint at the top. The crime is not that we used the road, but that the environmental extremists won the battle to close it. And even worse than that, they've got some of you off-roaders thinking that we were wrong. Shame on you!
And to address some of the other things; Magazines serve a very important (and vital) purpose in life. They can easily print ATV spec sheets and trail guides with still pictures that work far better than a TV. Almost all of what you complain about wanting to see is covered very well in the magazines. I suggest you subscribe! If all you want to see is action, buy an ATV video. The web gives regular everyday ATVers a voice. They can also print pics of everyday riders and their machines. That is not the purpose of ATV Television.
Let me remind you (wyoduner especially, since you seem to be so "sport oriented"
of one more statistic I'd mentioned earlier in the forum conversation - sport riding and racing is a far smaller percent of the ATV market than the recreational utility market. Sport ATVers also spend less on their ATV and even after market parts than the rec/ut guys. And sport riders statistically have a lower per capita income and therefore less money to spend on other things like trucks and SUVs and trailers. If you don't understand that and the true importance of that then there is no way we could ever have a viable conversation. But fortunately it's a free world! That gives you the right to just turn the channel and watch something else you enjoy or watch my show and complain about it if you so choose. Unfortunately it seems you would rather complain.
Coming up after the Surprise Canyon shows are two episodes where we invited some of the factory reps out for a day on one of the most extreme trails - the Sledgehammer for what we call "Hammer the Reps Day". The best part is we actually got permission to show some carnage! That's a first! Then we're off for our "Top Guns" big bore comparison! That outta irritate a few of you! Which ones? You'll just have to wait for the results!
Finally (is it any wonder I talk so much on the show?) The best part of what I do is having complete strangers come up and shake my hand and tell me how great it is that I do this show! The worst part is hearing from probably really great folks that are basically mean and cruel because it (forums and e-mail) are on a very impersonal level of communications. But I guess it comes with the job!
Godspeed everyone. I'm gonna be pretty tied up with some pick up filming and studio work until next week sometime. Be easy on me while I'm gone!
Now, for the episode that showed the ATVs going up the waterfalls. That route is a designated road! It has been since the town was built in the 1870's. What makes the whole trip such an adventure is that the road was washed away in a pair of serious desert flash floods and issolated the town of Panamint at the top. The crime is not that we used the road, but that the environmental extremists won the battle to close it. And even worse than that, they've got some of you off-roaders thinking that we were wrong. Shame on you!
And to address some of the other things; Magazines serve a very important (and vital) purpose in life. They can easily print ATV spec sheets and trail guides with still pictures that work far better than a TV. Almost all of what you complain about wanting to see is covered very well in the magazines. I suggest you subscribe! If all you want to see is action, buy an ATV video. The web gives regular everyday ATVers a voice. They can also print pics of everyday riders and their machines. That is not the purpose of ATV Television.
Let me remind you (wyoduner especially, since you seem to be so "sport oriented"
of one more statistic I'd mentioned earlier in the forum conversation - sport riding and racing is a far smaller percent of the ATV market than the recreational utility market. Sport ATVers also spend less on their ATV and even after market parts than the rec/ut guys. And sport riders statistically have a lower per capita income and therefore less money to spend on other things like trucks and SUVs and trailers. If you don't understand that and the true importance of that then there is no way we could ever have a viable conversation. But fortunately it's a free world! That gives you the right to just turn the channel and watch something else you enjoy or watch my show and complain about it if you so choose. Unfortunately it seems you would rather complain.Coming up after the Surprise Canyon shows are two episodes where we invited some of the factory reps out for a day on one of the most extreme trails - the Sledgehammer for what we call "Hammer the Reps Day". The best part is we actually got permission to show some carnage! That's a first! Then we're off for our "Top Guns" big bore comparison! That outta irritate a few of you! Which ones? You'll just have to wait for the results!
Finally (is it any wonder I talk so much on the show?) The best part of what I do is having complete strangers come up and shake my hand and tell me how great it is that I do this show! The worst part is hearing from probably really great folks that are basically mean and cruel because it (forums and e-mail) are on a very impersonal level of communications. But I guess it comes with the job!
Godspeed everyone. I'm gonna be pretty tied up with some pick up filming and studio work until next week sometime. Be easy on me while I'm gone!
#53
02-01-2002, 12:39 AM
I for one enjoy most of your shows topics. I agree with you that the majority of atv'ers are riding sport/ut quads and being a somewhat older crowd. The club I belong to has a varity of members and various quads with a average age of 45 or so and probably 60-70 percent are sport/ute's. I know some people could care less for seeing a show on dunes or racing and others could care less for trail riding ect. Its like the old saying goes... ride what ya got... and I for one enjoy seeing various show of different quads and riding areas. Keep up the good work and one wish would be a show on how to tackle a large hill or rough terrain at speed ..just basic proper tecniques.. Have fun and keep the faith ![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
#54
02-01-2002, 11:25 AM
#55
02-01-2002, 11:37 AM
Doug, Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to post your thoughts. Also, please don't feel like people are ganging up on you. I think a lot of people like myself want to take the opportunity to have your attention for a while to express their views to you. I think that we are all hoping that we can influence the direction of your show towards something that would more suit our interests. Nobody is being "cruel"; maybe blunt, frank and honest but not cruel. Misguided? Maybe.
Doug, I realize that utility ATV owners are the majority of ATV owners. No argument there. BUT, I feel that the sport riders are the more ENTHUSIASTIC (and probably vocal on these forums at least) group. I am 36 years old, hold a high level management position and have an income that is well above average. Demographically, I probably fall right into the utility crowd and am not representative of the average sport crowd. I realize that. Let me ask you this; Do you feel that your show balances sport with utility episodes proportionaly to how many of each group are out there? Now let me ask this; which group (sport ot ute) do you feel are more active or enthusiastic about their sport? I'll start a poll in a separate thread to see what response we get from ATV connection members; there are over 20,000 members so that should represent a fair sampling.
I posted my thoughts here to make my voice heard to you, Doug, specifically. I tried to be honest and frank (not just whining) and offer constructive comments on what I would personally like to see more of. These posts by me are in no way meant to be offensive or cruel; just honest. If I ever have the pleasure of meeting you in person I would still express the same thoughts. My hope is that in some small way I can influence the direction of your show towards what I believe would be a more well-rounded product. As I said in my first post I do admire your efforts and respect your dedication to the ATV community but feel that maybe perhaps you are a little "misguided" about viewers want to see. Either way, I will tune in when I can and hope for the best. In short all I am asking for is a little more diversity and a little more "spice" in the show. Good luck for continued success!!!
Doug, I realize that utility ATV owners are the majority of ATV owners. No argument there. BUT, I feel that the sport riders are the more ENTHUSIASTIC (and probably vocal on these forums at least) group. I am 36 years old, hold a high level management position and have an income that is well above average. Demographically, I probably fall right into the utility crowd and am not representative of the average sport crowd. I realize that. Let me ask you this; Do you feel that your show balances sport with utility episodes proportionaly to how many of each group are out there? Now let me ask this; which group (sport ot ute) do you feel are more active or enthusiastic about their sport? I'll start a poll in a separate thread to see what response we get from ATV connection members; there are over 20,000 members so that should represent a fair sampling.
I posted my thoughts here to make my voice heard to you, Doug, specifically. I tried to be honest and frank (not just whining) and offer constructive comments on what I would personally like to see more of. These posts by me are in no way meant to be offensive or cruel; just honest. If I ever have the pleasure of meeting you in person I would still express the same thoughts. My hope is that in some small way I can influence the direction of your show towards what I believe would be a more well-rounded product. As I said in my first post I do admire your efforts and respect your dedication to the ATV community but feel that maybe perhaps you are a little "misguided" about viewers want to see. Either way, I will tune in when I can and hope for the best. In short all I am asking for is a little more diversity and a little more "spice" in the show. Good luck for continued success!!!
#56
02-01-2002, 12:24 PM
Doug, I really have to side with WyoDuner. Even though I'm all about sport bikes, and my opinion is bias, you have to look at the whole picture.
1. One of the main reasons you have so many utility quads out there is that for years there has not been much of a selection for the buyers. Now with every manufacturer coming out with sport bikes, they are the quickest growing segment of the atv market in the last two years.
2. The reason utility quad owners as a whole spent more money on accessories is because then are outfitted for work as in snowplows, tilters, etc... As for sport machine owners not spending money on their bikes, let's just say that I personally have never seen an all stock banshee or 250r. Some people on this forum have spent over $5000 on there sport quads. Lots of utility quad users are not enthusiast, they use them for work and forget about them when they go home. Example: Do you think someone how works on a tractor goes home after work and buys Tractor Times Magazine or watches Tractor TV. So even though they may be currently the best selling atvs and accessories, only a small percentage are "enthusiast".
3. Somethings just don't come across well on TV. Example, riding a jetski in a lake is a lot of fun, watching your friend ride a jetski in a lake could be alright, but watching a video of someone riding a jetski in a lake on TV is coma inducing. The same could be said about watching a utility quad crawl inch by inch up a rock, it may be fun for the rider but not too exciting on TV.
4. Getting back to the subject of marketing the show. Take a look at these forums, most questions are regarding Banshees, Raptors, 400exs and 250Rs. These are the enthusiast. What is the best selling ATV mag, Dirtwheels not ATV Utility. Let me give you another example. I'm sure you would agree that Nascar racing is popular as a spectator sport, how many Nascar viewers actually own a racecar. I would say less than 1%. Now when a Chevy wins the fans feel good about buying a chevy truck or van. In other words they will be more likely to watch Nascar racing than a truck show even though they own a truck because it makes for better TV.
I'm sorry I'm being so long winded but I work in a marketing deptment and can't help but look at things with a critical eye and tell you what i feel. I have been on this forum for almost a year and I have yet you hear someone say, hey does anyone know of a good Utility ATV video or a Utility Mag I could read. Everyone talks about sport ATV videos (here is a good story, a review of the new Huevos 4) and what dyno number this mag came out with on the raptor bla bla bla...
1. One of the main reasons you have so many utility quads out there is that for years there has not been much of a selection for the buyers. Now with every manufacturer coming out with sport bikes, they are the quickest growing segment of the atv market in the last two years.
2. The reason utility quad owners as a whole spent more money on accessories is because then are outfitted for work as in snowplows, tilters, etc... As for sport machine owners not spending money on their bikes, let's just say that I personally have never seen an all stock banshee or 250r. Some people on this forum have spent over $5000 on there sport quads. Lots of utility quad users are not enthusiast, they use them for work and forget about them when they go home. Example: Do you think someone how works on a tractor goes home after work and buys Tractor Times Magazine or watches Tractor TV. So even though they may be currently the best selling atvs and accessories, only a small percentage are "enthusiast".
3. Somethings just don't come across well on TV. Example, riding a jetski in a lake is a lot of fun, watching your friend ride a jetski in a lake could be alright, but watching a video of someone riding a jetski in a lake on TV is coma inducing. The same could be said about watching a utility quad crawl inch by inch up a rock, it may be fun for the rider but not too exciting on TV.
4. Getting back to the subject of marketing the show. Take a look at these forums, most questions are regarding Banshees, Raptors, 400exs and 250Rs. These are the enthusiast. What is the best selling ATV mag, Dirtwheels not ATV Utility. Let me give you another example. I'm sure you would agree that Nascar racing is popular as a spectator sport, how many Nascar viewers actually own a racecar. I would say less than 1%. Now when a Chevy wins the fans feel good about buying a chevy truck or van. In other words they will be more likely to watch Nascar racing than a truck show even though they own a truck because it makes for better TV.
I'm sorry I'm being so long winded but I work in a marketing deptment and can't help but look at things with a critical eye and tell you what i feel. I have been on this forum for almost a year and I have yet you hear someone say, hey does anyone know of a good Utility ATV video or a Utility Mag I could read. Everyone talks about sport ATV videos (here is a good story, a review of the new Huevos 4) and what dyno number this mag came out with on the raptor bla bla bla...
