Thanks for the kind words Ted. I AGREE with everything you've said in your posts.

We are moving a LITTLE bit forward with HB 4323 but not nearly as much as we should be.

Bill

 

wibornz,

I hope my question wasn't misinterpreted. I understand that any lost income is hard to accept. I was just comparing how Michigan used to conduct their program vs. MN.

 

you could always train for ASI there always looking for competent instructors .

 

No offense taken. Michigan had a good training program at one time. Instructors could make sufficient money and live on the income provided by training kids and adult how to safely drive atvs. The state gutted the program and put just about everybody out of business. They took the training away from the private sector and the DNR and local law enforcement started conducting the training. Unfortunately teaching kids and adult how to drive an atv is not way up on the list of priorities for law enforcement in Michigan. Cops prefer and should be chasing bad guys, not making sure that Jimmy knows how correctly turn or stop an atv. So the program that used to contain information about safety, laws, and actual time driving the atvs, has turned into read this book and sit in this chair for approx fours and here is your training certificate. Training at one time was done by instructors that were passionate about the sport, not just some one that was assigned to pass out a book and watch people read. The classes were taught by people that could pass on not only information, but also experience. It is just a shame, Michigan is has tight budget crunch, and police and state DNR officers are getting laid off, the quality of training from them will diminish into a worthless mess. ATV safety training was managed quite well in the private sector, and cops were doing what they should be doing, protecting citizens from bad people. So if you live in Michigan and you need a cop, don't be suprised if his or her response time is slow, they may be teaching an ATV safety class and they are not able to respond to someone breaking into your home or hurting one of your family members. Just one more example of government program that should be handled by the private sector. O well my kids were trained by me when I was certified as a trainer, it will just be the other kids that will suffer due to the lack of quality training offered by the government.

Ok I am done complaining about this, because I have had no luck in making a change in this. Go see Bill. He made it through the changes and I am confident that he still teaches and runs a quality program.

 

I teach as many classes as my time allows for ASI , don't make alot of money but am compensated for my time ,but that is not why I started doing the training ,I started teaching because I saw to many people getting hurt thru stupidity or ignorence
In Minnesota the kids have to go thru a so called AtV class that I think is not the best ,they have to sit at a computer for 2hrs of reading and then drive once around a small course ,I can be corrected if I'm wrong ,
where I teach the correct way to ride ,and handle a machine ,

 

Dean,

From one instructor (MN DNR) to another (ASI), I would like to say thanks for the kick in the nuts. I would encourage you to attend a MN DNR course before you begin to pass any judgement on the MN DNR program. The funny thing is, I don't recall you being the judgemental type that day when we crossed paths down at Tri-County.

But to help enlighten you to what the DNR program is all about compared to my experience from the ASI training, here's my observation:

MN DNR: kids 11-15 must take the home study portion of the course and pass all quiz's on the CD-ROM before entering the classroom.

ASI: I'm not aware of any prerequisite for the training.

MN DNR: kids 11-15 must "FIT" the machine they intend to ride

ASI: my oldest son at age 15 and 6' 3" is limited to operating a 90cc machine or smaller where his legs would hang over the handle bars. I was told by the instructor at my course that he could angle his feet down to fit his legs behind the handle bars, but in turn he would put his size 13 shoes below the foot pegs making them vulnerable to any obstructions such as rocks or stumps potentially breaking a foot or ankle.

NOTE: The ASI course does not allow anyone between 12-15, or born on or after July 1, 1987, to ride on public lands or frozen waters. MN DNR ATV Safety Certificate required to ride on public lands or frozen waters.

MN DNR: kids must also go through a classroom portion, where I personally go over riding techniques, safety concerns, safety equipment, rider/parent responsibility, rider ethics, rider morals, tread lightly, MN ATV LAWS, and the 50 question written test, which is all on a powerpoint that I developed for my course.

ASI: my experience of sitting in a chair that seemed to come from a kindergarten class it was so small, listening to the instructor talking about tread lightly, equipment, riding techniques, while paging through a booklet that had pictorials reminiscent of kindergarten class again. No offense, they just seemed tailored to the younger crowds under age 12. But there was no discussion on MN ATV laws.

MN DNR: the riding portion does consist of 3 separate riding courses utilizing different sets of props to simulate obstacles experienced while riding different areas. This includes the signs they will see while riding on MN trails, maneuvering around cones, side hilling (traversing a hill), up hill/down hill, hand signals, going over logs that may have fallen on the trail, and proper hand signals in different circumstances.

ASI: covers much of the same as listed above.


My overal experience with the ASI course that I took was for the most part a building block to use some of the same information to better my course. A benchmarking session if you will. I also learned what not to do and that is to NOT pick out one person in the class based on what machine they ride and make an example out of them. Case in point, I was riding a newly purhcased DS 650 and the instructor wasn't happy with my caution in one of the exercises so he told me to do it again but speed it up a little. My only option was second gear and enough rpm's to keep it from killing, which in turn was 15-20 mph. This drill, which I'm sure you're familiar with where the riders come directly at you and once they reach a pair of cones you point left or right or want them to stop. Well, needless to say that Mr. Brilliant instructor waited until my entire machine was through the cones and almost on top of him before he signaled me what to do. After this he proceeded to chew my *** for going too fast.

Another thing about this instructor is he was wearing a helmet that dated back to the 70's, which by any standard in terms of legal head gear, was nowhere close to being legal, or a good example for that matter. This instructor also went ballistic when I told him that I was a DNR Instructor. I cannot repeat some of the things he said on this forum but he was totally against what the DNR was doing and made remarks that how can someone give the same level of training with 4 hours of DNR training vs. the 40 hours of training through ASI to become an instructor. To me it's not so much of "how many hours" the instructors spend in their training to become one as it is having people with knowledge of the equipment, how to handle the machines, the laws, and possess a good set of ethics/morals, common sense and an ability to get through to the more naive riders who think they're invincible.

Make no mistake on the DNR course as they have instructors with many years of riding experience, with myself having 25 years. No matter who we represent, we're all trying to reach a common ground and that's the preservation of our sport by making riders safer, smarter, and to have some respect for the environment.


This post wasn't intended to defame the ASI program, but more to show my own personal observations between the 2 programs.

DS

 

I could not be an ASI instructor. I do not believe in their policies. I have a huge kids that have been riding dirt bikes or atv since the age of 3. They had thousands of miles on the trail prior to their training. It was silly that the ASI instructor thought that my kids should be on a 70 cc atv or 90 cc atv. When they have been riding cr 250 dirt bikes or 400 cc sport quads. ASI puts kids on machines that are not size appropriate.

 

I agree 100% wibornz. This was also the reason I did not become an ASI instructor. There's a lot of things they would have to change before I would become one.

 

Lep 7 like I said if I'm wrong correct me ,just what I have seen ,I have seen some bad instructors in both programs ,I think any kind of instruction is better then none at all .
I just think the Dnr course especially for the young people could be better ,more time on handling the machine ,
and do like minnesotas approach of ,If the rider can control the machine and reach all the controls properly,I constantly Ask ASI if there ever going to change there policy ? probably not insurance reasons is the answer I have gotten ,
I know the issue with size of a kid my son when he was 13 was 5'11" so would not have fit a 90cc machine so sized one that fit his frame much safer in the long run .didn't mean any slam just worded it wrong ,I apoligize .

 

a lot of this is up to the instructor. We do have the liberty of adding more to our instruction if we feel the need. I personally don't point at the props and tell the kids to ride over them and their done.

I even had the USDA come to me for riding instruction last summer for a group of their Southern MN employees. I went the extra mile and actually purhcased some railroad ties from Menards for props. Some of them were nervous about riding over them, but they had a blast.

I recently received a phone call from a mother who wants to go through the DNR training with her daughter. Come to find out, her son had gone through one of my courses before and her husband sat in on the course. He was impressed enough to refer his wife and daughter back to my course vs. any others. To me, this is the ultimate compliment. I've been fortunate enough to have this happen a few times.

It would be nice to get paid financially for the DNR course, but my main concern is that the students get enough out of my training that it helps them make better decisions and potentially saving their life. I've witnessed a student who, the day after the course, was spinning donuts in his yard and rolled a 500 Sportsman ontop of himself. Luckily no broken bones, but some bruises that serve as a painful reminder of what can happen. I also witnessed a girl, who was 15 at the time, ride down a county road then into the ditch without missing a beat, at 40 mph bouncing all over the place, WITH NO HELMET. This was a month after she went through the course. I had discussions with parents in both cases.

The above scenarios show that we can teach and preach until we're blue in the face, but what the kids do after they leave the classroom is their parents responsibility. No matter what training course they went through.