Xplor I 100% agree with you, whats the point of carrying a firearm in the woods. I've encountered bears before on the trail, does'nt mean you need to shoot them to continue your ride, they usually move along and don't give a sh*t.
I enjoy seeing wild animals on the trails I usually have a camera with me to take pictures
The animals were there first, your trespassing on thier land.

2000 SCRAMBLER 400 2X4

SCRAMDADDY400

 

GreenRuby

I commend you on a well thought out post. I generally don't pack on atv trips, but have seriously thought about it. One of my riding buddies rides in the hills of West Virginia and they all feel it is necessary to carry. They have never used them and hope not to, but better safe than sorry. It is a screwed up world. I would like to and I try to see the good in everbody, but the fact is that there are people out there that just are snakes lurking in the weeds. I live by the motto, "Refuse to be a victim". Maybe its just the Army coming back out in me to defend at all costs, but thats how I am. Again, good post.

 

GreenRuby, you have an absolute right to defend yourself, but what training and experience do you have with firearms, besides purchasing the pistol you describe on the ATV Forum?

Have you studied legal and responsible aspects of using lethal force? How have you established confidence in your competence in combat handgun techniques (for example, "qualifying" on a course of fire) and firearms safety practices?

You realize you're talking about possibly taking human lives with your SIG-Sauer compact .45 ACP pistol (even the lives of "four or five 200+ pound 17-year-olds"); what if your adversaries are also armed? Maybe with more powerful firearms (like 12-gauge shotguns or hunting rifles), maybe they're more experienced with firearms and better shots than you. How prepared are you for an armed conflict situation; better still, have you thought of how you might avoid one?

Using lethal force is a serious subject, deserving some realistic thought; carrying a firearm is a serious decision deserving some preparation.

Diogenes

 

AMEN!

 

I don’t know you, and I mean no disrespect. It seems to me that your post has a very “liberal” sound too it. Again, I mean not to start something. I realize you have thought this out and mean what you say. However, I can never understand the liberal point of view on this. A law-abiding citizen trying to protect his life, his property, his constitutional right to the pursuit of happiness becomes the “bad guy”. You hear from the media all the time, that if you carry a gun, you must want to use it. That is not the case in most people. The “most people” that we’re talking about here, are the lawful, registered gun owners. You asked about the training one should have. Well anyone that carries a gun, should be familiar with it. I think that it is another media induce presumption that no one should carry a gun because no one has had the training. I take the other view, if you go through the legal process to obtain a concealed weapons permit, dish out several hundred dollars for a hand gun, that you would take the time to learn it capabilities and limitations.
You assume that the GreenRuby was talking about shooting and killing the teenagers in his scenario. I didn’t see that at all. I believe his point was that his gun, if needed would not necessarily prevent his quad from being stolen, but prevent him from being beaten or worse. That is the root of this discussion, self defense. We all defend our loved ones first, ourselves second and our property last. I would not kill a man over my quad. I believe that that is the same for most of us here.
I truly wish we lived in a world that it would not be necessary, but we don’t, there are evil people out there. I believe its wrong to make the victim into the bad guy, because he refused to be a victim.

Stainless 1911, 10mm
Offices model 1911, .45

And yes I am certified by the United States Army, as and expert in marksmanship and urban combat. I am also qualified as an instructor for both.

 

Here's a little story for yea.

This happened about 30 years ago,, (now I feel old), "Anyway". My budy Phil was about 2 years old and was up with his family camping in Tioga county Pa. They were setting up camp and preparing for the night. Right before dusk Phils father noticed at about 600 yards out there were a pac of three dogs heading in a b-line towards there camp at full speed.

Having his family in the open with a 2 year old son walking around. Phil's father walked over a picked up his 270. Just in case,,, But those dogs keep comin and comin! Closing in past 200 yards and not slowing down, Phils father brought the rifle to bare.

Not wanting to shoot the dogs but, unknowing their intenions. He waited till the dogs crossed to within a 100 yards and still comin at full speed. He put a bead on the center dog,,,and fired,,sending the center dog back the other way with no more head.

The other two dogs broke off to left and right and went back to the center dog, now dead. Sniffed around a little looked in there direction then ran off direction west of there location.

After talking to the land owner next door, He found out the dogs were rabid and wild.

I guess the moral of the story is, When in the wild be prepared!!! You just never know what can come down the pike.

 

Hey, I also carry a mobil phone. Just in case!!

 

I mentioned earlier for the sake of some, that I also carry a mobil phone when I ride.

I also wear a helmet, thick pants, long sleeve shirt and jacket and heavy boots. Just like they tell you to in the training videos. Does this make me paranoid?

Come on folks, really!! I consider myself to be reasonably learned and fairly flexible/understanding, but I can't for the life of me understand the "liberal" view on gun control. Does it somehow make you feel better that there is some 22 to 25 year old kid out there driving around in a car with lights on the roof putting his life on the line every night for your sake?

You're right, we should all turn in our guns and just rely on the police to be there when something crappy happens or is about to happen. Reality check: The police have no right to act in any situation until a crime has already been committed. I'm not blaming them; it's not their fault, that's the way the law is written. Most of the time the police are there to fill out reports and mop up the mess. Oops, too late!

I am qualified, certified, trained and experienced... so rest easy that at least one of the 7 million registered gun owners in the U.S. has at least some qualifications. However, there are 6,999,999 other gun owners who may not have any training at all. Is this a problem for you? Like you mentioned Diogenes, what if I am outgunned? Do I know how to react? Well, as a former member of a Shipboard Security Team (SST), I also have been trained in cover and concealment. I expect that these skills would carry me through in the unexpected scenario that you describe.

Have you ever asked yourself why you are so afraid of guns? or people with guns? Have you ever handled a gun? I suspect that you have as you were able to reference the Lethal Force Institute. If you have handled a weapon then you would know that guns don't kill people, people kill people. A gun is a tool used to direct a high velocity projectile at a target. Hammers are tools too!

Why is the crime rate so high here in the U.S.? Is it because law-abiding citizens such as myself have guns?

Why is the crime rate so low in Switzerland? Well, that's because every man in that county has to serve a period in the military. He then is compelled to keep his weapon in his home after discharge from active duty. What criminal in his right mind will enter a home when he knows that there is a weapon inside. How come you don't see signs on homes that say, "Gun free home!"

Wow, I am surprised by the number of liberals found on an ATVing site. Why don't these people see the logical connection between taking away guns and taking away other rights... like rights that might affect your ability to ride your ATV.

 

First of all I am a card caring member of the NRA and love my guns and do not plan on giving them up anytime soon.
I guess I don't live where you guys live and I am thankful for that, because if I felt the need to carry a handgun while riding my quad I would move.
As far as protecting your self from animals I guess I can see that, but I feel sorry for anyone who takes on a Grizzly with a 9mm. I will admit that in my travels around the U.S.A. there have been many times I wished I had a weapon of some kind, but most of the time this was in a large city, L.A., Boston, New York, Miami etc.
Maybe you guys are right, maybe we should all carry a gun while riding.
To those of you who do pack a gun while riding, more power too you. This is your right as far as I am concerned, just scares me a little.

Just my thoughts.

 

First off my favorite riding partner is my brother. We are close in skill so we always challenge each other to go faster and faster. Climb this hill jump this jump, and so on.

I as most on this forum believe in the right to bear arms. I have taken the course to carry in VA, but as of yet have not applied for my permit. I do not carry a gun when I ride. Basically, because I dont see the need. In VA we dont really have any dangerous animals, and when I ride it is usually with a large group of 'good' people. By good I mean as long as you are good to us we will be good to you.

I have seen others out riding with guns and at first it put me off. However, after thinking about it I realize it is their right.

I also agree that you have to defend yourself. Police are generally on the scene when it is over. I dont want to be a victim or a piece of evidence.

One other thing is we need to be watchful of how anti-gun or even anti-atv people view us. We need to be sure to convey the right messages. I am not saying to let anyone trample your rights, but be careful and mindful of how your comments could be used against us.

Adam Smith

99 400EX