In the topic about Towing a RV, there is some discussion about this question. I'm still undecided. I need some more Pros and Con's on Diesel ownership. I have made a short list which I believe covers the majority but I would like some feed back since most of you know more about them than me.

Pro's:

Gobbs of Power
Fuel efficiency
Long engine life

Con's

Initial cost. 4500-6000
Maintenance costs
Repair costs
Fuel is spendy
Hard to start when cold.

A few of my friends have diesels (all Fords) and for the most part are happy with them but I have heard horror stories about them too. For example. A water pump went out on one and the cost for a new one was 1300.00 from the dealer not including labor. Apparently there's no aftermarket manufactures so he told me. He ended up having his re-built for 700.00. Bad turbo: cost 2500.00. Oil changes at 70.00 each. And I was told with the turbo Oil changes should be more frequent. Every 2000 miles or sooner instead of 3000.

I would like to share the formula I'm using to make my decision on which to buy. It basically takes the fuel costs into account. On average I drive 20 to 25,000 miles a year. I am using the 20,000 in my math.

On a Gas engine: I take 20,000 divided by 11 (MPG) this equals 1818 Gallons used per year. 1818 multiplied by cost $1.40 equals $2545.00 in annual fuel costs.

On the diesel side: 20,000 divided by 16 (MPG) this equals 1250 Gallons used per year. 1250 multiplied by cost $1.69 equals $2112.00 in annual fuel costs.

As you can see the difference is negligible. I will be saving roughly $433.00 a year in fuel on the diesel. Taking the initial $4500.00 option of a diesel it would take me 11 years or 220,000 miles to make this option justifiable. And this is not including maintenance on either vehicle.

Am I calculating this wrong? Or do I need to drive more miles to make it worthwhile? 70-80,000 per year.

PS $4500.00 can buy a lot of gas.

 

I just picked up a 99 F-250 w/V-10 to haul the quads and maybe a trailer around. My brother and father both have powerstroke diesels and although they do have gobs of torque, for what I do there is no way I can justify the extra $4500. I can't climb a steep incline as fast under a heavy load but empty or with a light load I smoke those marble grinders every time. And remember there are no mountains in MN. By the way both the diesels have been very reliable engines and I borrowed them every chance I got before I picked up my truck. Definitely pick up a 3/4 ton though if you are going to haul larger loads on any kind of consistant basis.

 

You are doing the math correct. Most of the diesel users are putting heavy miles on their trucks. Down here you can find a 1 year old used diesel with over 100,000 miles on it any day of the week. They are all over the place. Putting big miles on them is where the money will start to even out.

As far as being hard to start when cold, most manufacturers offer an engine heater that really helps. It might up your utility bill on your house, but it helps the truck. Another thing to consider is that you should always let a diesel warm up. So starting your engine and letting it idle for a while can be a pain (espcially since MN is a heck of a lot colder than Texas).

 

Hiofcer:
Are you partial to Ford??? I'm looking into buying a new diesel myself here within the next couple months anyway. Chevy has come out with the new Duramax diesel, which is the Isuzu engine. It is pumping out 310 hp, and 540 ft/lbs. of torque-stock. If this amount of power is not enough for you, you can buy additional power upgrades for anywhere up to a few thousand dollars more from aftermarket companies which will dramatically increase the performance of your diesel engine. The catch is, more money. The thing about it, diesels like to be driven. Short drives such as firing it up for a quick drive to the grocery store, or to work and back, are the worst things you can do to a diesel. They need to be driven longer miles in order to keep the efficiency and life up of the engine. I'm assuming your 20,000 miles per year covers ALL your driving, not just the trips you make while pulling loads, is this correct? If so, I might incline steer you away from the diesel. If this is true, the gas engine is probably your best bet. I don't think you could justify the added expense in the engine upgrade alone going from gas to diesel to make up for the difference in mileage, at only 20,000 miles.

On a better note, Chevy has also introduced a new line of gas engines, which are very impressive. I don't remember exactly, but the 5100 or 6100 series is claiming upwards of 20 mpg out of a stock gas engine! That's damn good for a gas engine in a pickup. They have dramatically increased the power output as well. I believe the 327 engine replacement is putting out over 300 hp, while the 454 replacement-a 496 cid, is pumping 340 hp and 450 ft/lbs. torque, at around 12 mpg or so, loaded. They are claiming upwards of 26 mpg out of the duramax. I know a guy here local who has had his duramax for about a month now, with right around 2,000 miles, and is getting between 21-23 mpg, constant. The thing about diesels is, they increase in mileage with age. The more miles you put on, the better the fuel mileage will be. He regularly tows a 6,500 lbs. load, including trailer, and gets about 18 mpg, which isn't too bad.

The dodge cummins is also an excellent, well proven engine. Blue Chip performance now makes an aftermarket device which costs around $1,300 for the unit, but they also recommend beefing up the tranny and drivetrain a bit, totalling around $3,500, which allows the truck to be able to handle the increased performance. Basically, you can gain up to a 63% power increase with the full package deal. Fuel mileage with this extreme setup varies depending on what mode you're in.

Anyway, probably irrelevant info. Atv's don't weigh too much, so with a diesel pickup, you probably won't loose much fuel mileage, even fully loaded with all your gear. I'd definately get a 3/4 ton model myself, unless you'll be towing other larger loads, which may require a full one-ton. That new duramax is a sweet unit though, and very quiet as well. Definately nice trucks.

Well, I've rambled on long enough. Good luck in your decision, which ever way you go. Take care,

Mike

 

Get a Chev 2500 Heavy Duty...I'd take one of those over a Ford anyday.
I don't think you mentioned if you wanted 4wd or not...can't remember, but if you want 4wd I'd say chev or GMC if your lazy(no offence)...because they have the push-button 4wd and Auto 4wd...which Ford doesn't have and you have to get out of the truck and turn the hubs on a Ford...not so great when it's freezing out or under mud.

 

Actually the Super Duty Fords have both methods. They have a push button, but if for some reason this fails, you have the option to lock the fronts at the hubs. Best design I have seen to date.

 

A Dodge Cummins hold 12 qrts of oil and needs to be changed every 5000-7500 miles. Less oil changes at greater expense. Don't know about Fords.

 

Well I saw a guy who was stuck in a brand new Ford F-250 diesel Super Duty 4x4 turning his front hubs...to put in 4wd...why didn't he just use the push button like you said??...Are you sure there is a push-button 4wd for them??....I thought you couldn't get Fords with it.

 

hiofcer, I don't know about the Ford and Chevy, but our Dodge gets 19 mpg towing 10k on the hills of PA and we get over 21 mpg on flat ground. I have driven all the diesels, and none compare to the low end grunt of the Dodge.
No doubt, hands down GET THE DIESEL !! I have a race car that I tow to the race tracks in PA, and the hills are killer. With the trailer loaded with the car, tools, welder, generator, coolers ECT..... it is well close to 10,000.
We used to tow with a Chevy crew cab duelly 454, and got about 11 mpg. We got tired of making 90 mph runs for the next hill so we looked for a new truck. We got a Dodge 3/4 ton with the Cummins in it.........what a difference! I can't begin to tell you how much more torque it has. Hills that we would lose speed as we climbed in the Chevy are no match for the Cummins. Half way up at 65, just step on the Cummins and you are reaching 75 by the top of the hill.

As for the fuel debate, you are way ahead with the diesel. We were getting 10-11 in the gas big block, and with the Cummins we get anywhere from 19.2 and over 20 mpg. That's twice as far for 30 cents more. If I bought a gallon of diesel for $1.60 and drove 20 miles, in the gas truck you would have to buy 2 gals at $1.40 each, that is $2.80 total. Plus, if both trucks had 25gal tanks, the gas truck has to stop for fuel more often, because the diesel goes twice as for on one tank. Which in turn costs more also for the gas truck, because you use more fuel to get off the freeway, find a gas station, get back on the freeway and get back up to speed, now you have lost time and money just by having to stop for fuel.
Also, the diesels of today do not have the maintenance or problems starting in cold of deisels in the past.

Just my thoughts, and my experience.

 

I have a 96 Powerstroke diesel and wouldn't trade it for anything.I get around 20 mpg.Cold weather starts aren't to bad if you keep the heater plugged up.